View Full Version : How is the USA seen in the eyes of the world?
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 15:29
This is a question many scholars ask and that is why I would like to ask the fine people of this message board to comment on. How favorable is the USA within the community of nations throughout the world? If unfavorable are the people to blame or the government officials?
Feel free to express your opinions freely.
In my eyes, and the eyes of many friends of mine, the USA is a great place to visit for a vacation, especially with the current exchange rates (£1 - $2, roughly? so things are real cheap)
However the government is horrid, and makes bad decisions, states like Alabama are so archiac they practically belong in the stone-age (god forbid you were a coloured homosexual, they'd crucify you)
I don't like the old fashioned ideals, the fact men are treated better than women, the school system is utterly useless and its my idea of hell in terms of a place to live
That said, some states are evidently better than others, but no...given the choice I'd take australia, sorry ><
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 15:49
Rayne pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one, some states are better than others.
The Government is a joke, they have managed to turn the dollar from the best currency in the world to a failing one.
I cannot comment on all the people becuase that would be painting everyone with the same brush. It's like hating all Iraqi's despite there being top notch people there. Besides I have a few American friends here and they're great.
But I still have no intention to even visit Americaland. I'd buy a Muscle car though:biggrin:.
richarddavies
29-05-2008, 16:03
Interesting and very touchy topic. Can only speak through personal experience but im from England and I only know one person that doesn't mind America and thats because he has relatives in Seattle.
I think this could be A lengthly topic discussing pros and cons. I just think countries like ripping on other countries.
Plus that whole self declared "America's the greatest country in the world" even though they don't really stand out in any area is pretty annoying. Well except sports like football and baseball. But then again there the only country that play them.
Also on A positive note they do kick ass in the movie business.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 16:12
The USA is getting very bad lately and like Rayne was saying the educational system is useless which I believe is created that way (Producing Workers, not thinkers). Also the media here is "The most corrupt media in the world" which continues to condition the masses and pacify the free thinkers. Jobs wages are terrible, oil is going through the roof because the amount of money we are paying for our illegal wars. Its really getting crazy over here.
If you do come to visit the states I suggest that you do not visit urban areas in this time of economic crisis. If you ever seen the movie "The Warriors" it may start looking like that if the job market keeps plunging.
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 16:35
Plus that whole self declared "America's the greatest country in the world" even though they don't really stand out in any area is pretty annoying...
I was gonna mention that but I thought maybe I was the only one who thought it.
Also coolinator you should try buying petrol in the UK, you got it good it's about $12 a gallon for petrol (gasoline) here.
I don't like the vast majority of America. It's too stuck up, opinionated and egotistical for me. The only good parts of America I like are the wide open roads where no sod lives. ^_^
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 16:46
My dilema here is I need to get out of New York but the only jobs that are left are on the coasts. Also we are being constantly bombarded by illegal aliens from mexico and some say the government wants that to create a North American Union like the one you have in europe.
some say the government wants that to create a North American Union like the one you have in europe.
I really hope your not including the UK in that. -_-
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 16:56
The UK is not apart of the EU but they keep trying to get you guys in. (Sigh)
The thing that really anoys me about America is that even though our data protection act. says that data must not be given to orginisations that do not have an equivalent law, America threatened our country with breaking our "friendship" with them if our government didn't give theirs data about people trveling to America!:mad:
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 18:18
The police state is on the way. Its scary, Under the guise of a terror threat everyone will give up their rights. Be careful when they pass these laws it seems to me they are only after the normal citizens instead of the "terrorists" if there is such a thing.
SuperMatt723
29-05-2008, 20:33
I in fact, too dislike America, and I live here! New York is portrayed as great, but it really isn't all that good. It's nice to visit, but to live? No.
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 20:36
Well, I know some people from America and they all seem really great so I can't knock the people. It seems like a nice place to spend a nice break in but I don't think I would want to live there. It's a bit too noisey and lively for my liking.
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 21:13
The UK is not apart of the EU but they keep trying to get you guys in. (Sigh)
Actually the UK does belong to the EU. Together with Germany and probably France they are one of the countries with more power there.
On to the topic. The way the American government treats other countries doesn't pass a very good image of their people.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 21:19
Members of the European Union with their dates of joining:
1952: Italy, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourgh
1973: UK, Ireland, Denmark
1981: Greece
1986: Portugal, Spain
1995: Austria, Sweden, Finland
2004: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Malta, Cyprus
2007: Bulgaria, Romania
Candidates for joining: Croatia, Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia, Turkey
Please, get your facts right before saying anything wrong, Sir. You're 35 years behind.
Edit:
@Topic:
I'm very very displeased with the education of the Americans. Without knowing they insult people of countries they never heard of. As an Austrian I'm always insulted a lot. Not only the mistakings with Australia, but mainly the fact that, when I say "I'm from Vienna", they say "that's in Germany, right?"... yeah, Vienna was part of Germany: from 1938-1945. Despite not being of Austrian roots, I still have my bonds to this country and always are highly offended by that.
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 21:24
Members of the European Union with their dates of joining:
1952: Italy, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourgh
1973: UK, Ireland, Denmark
1981: Greece
1986: Portugal, Spain
1995: Austria, Sweden, Finland
2004: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Malta, Cyprus
2007: Bulgaria, Romania
Candidates for joining: Croatia, Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia, Turkey
Please, get your facts right before saying anything wrong, Sir. You're 35 years behind.
I always thought that the UK was one of the founding members of the EU. Guess we do learn new things every day.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 21:26
Well, at least you didn't count nations out. Years aren't all that important.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 21:31
Wait a minute, So the UK is in the european union but doesnt use the EU's currency (Euros)?
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 21:31
Members of the European Union with their dates of joining:
1952: Italy, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourgh
1973: UK, Ireland, Denmark
1981: Greece
1986: Portugal, Spain
1995: Austria, Sweden, Finland
2004: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Malta, Cyprus
2007: Bulgaria, Romania
Candidates for joining: Croatia, Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia, Turkey
Please, get your facts right before saying anything wrong, Sir. You're 35 years behind.
Edit:
@Topic:
I'm very very displeased with the education of the Americans. Without knowing they insult people of countries they never heard of. As an Austrian I'm always insulted a lot. Not only the mistakings with Australia, but mainly the fact that, when I say "I'm from Vienna", they say "that's in Germany, right?"... yeah, Vienna was part of Germany: from 1938-1945. Despite not being of Austrian roots, I still have my bonds to this country and always are highly offended by that.
Wow, never knew half of that. Guess this place is good for general knowledge as well :biggrin:.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 21:33
My topics rock, no applause necessary
Wait a minute, So the UK is in the european union but doesnt use the EU's currency (Euros)?
Pretty sure there's a few other countries in Europe that don't use the Euro.
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 21:41
Yeah Denmark is another, but I have a feeling that will change for both of us as the Euro is getting stronger all the time.
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 21:41
All this talk of Australia makes me think of Fosters...
It sure is interesting that the majority of members here who live in the US actually don't like it. I bet most people say that about where they live though, I being one of them. Also, the UK has talked about using euro's for some time now but nothing has been done.
Like fuck are we part of "Europe". Me and millions of other British people don't give a toss about the EU or anything to do with it. We want nothing at all, to do with the EU. Personally I can't stand it. Even America rates higher than the EU. -_-
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 21:42
Pretty sure there's a few other countries in Europe that don't use the Euro.
Duh! Of Course
Wait a minute, So the UK is in the european union but doesnt use the EU's currency (Euros)?
So they are in the EU but dont use the Euro currency? <--- That was the question
So they are in the EU but dont use the Euro currency? <--- That was the question
Yet the answer is still the same so *ahem* "duh".
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 21:46
Do we really need all these harsh "Duh" comments to peoples posts? come on guys think a bit eh?
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 21:46
Ooooooh Americaland just took another blow in popularity!
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 21:49
Well, to be honest, the UK kind of scares me. There are more cameras in London than there are people and I heard they just passed a law where you can't protest in front of parliament. I don't know which country is taking the most hits on its freedom, USA or UK?
I dont know which country is taking the most hits on its freedom USA or UK.
See this is what bothers me about Americans, automatically assuming we have "freedom". We have laws, we have some sort of "human rights", but I don't remember anything saying we can do what Americans can do. Far as I know, if the police let you, call it a blessing.
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 22:00
Well, don't you all hate me for this but from what I have seen on the news and from what I have experienced in my past my personal feelings are.
"No country is worse or better, I think the world is grade A wank and war has proven it. No one can change that as it's too crapped up as it is. Governments have made this place worse with there trying to make things better which have backfired."
Well, that's my view.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 22:03
See this is what bothers me about Americans, automatically assuming we have "freedom". We have laws, we have some sort of "human rights", but I don't remember anything saying we can do what Americans can do. Far as I know, if the police let you, call it a blessing.
I have to disagree
We here in the USA have rights given to us by our constitution and bill of right rendering us soverign bodies. Every individual in the USA is a soveriegn state unto him/herself. We can speak whenever we please, be safe in our papers, cannot be tortured, and so on and so forth. The most important one is to be armed. To protect oneself and not need the police. Police here are just for giving traffic tickets we (meaning the citizens) are the true police. We dont call for help.
I'm really tired right now but let me say that laws are created by the people and can be repealed. Also some rights are inalienable meaning they cannot be taken away and no law can be placed against them.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 22:06
Well, actually not every government backfired, as some of them REALLY are trying to change at least their country to the better (look at Scandinavia or Spain), however, corrupt governments where the politicians only want money in their pockets will end up with crap like most of the European governments now have. Unfortunately. The gap between poor and rich is becoming bigger and bigger every year, despite the fact that economy in Europe is growing better... but that all lands in the managers' purses, and the workers see no cent.
That's the problem with our communities nowadays... there's a small elite who get all the cash and the normal people are those who have to pay that. <_<
The most important one is to be armed. To protect oneself and not need the police. Police here are just for giving traffic tickets we (meaning the citizens) are the true police. We dont call for help.
This is the reason why I, as a Russian, will never set a foot into the USA. Despite I have a bunch of friends there, but I'm just too scared to be labelled a terrorist and shot by paranoid inhabitants of the US just because of some accent (although mine is British). The stories I've heard are not really pleasing, and I'd be scared for life when EVER being in the USA. Call me fearful, but yeah, that's all the work of what I heard about inhabitants (and police) of the US. Are you proud of scaring people from other nations away from your country? <_<
The most important one is to be armed. To protect oneself and not need the police. Police here are just for giving traffic tickets we (meaning the citizens) are the true police. We dont call for help.
And look how that worked out. You have adults shooting children, children shooting other children and for good measure shooting adults too. You have one of the biggest homicide rates in the world and no one feels safe anymore. Your constitution is outdated and should be at least updated. Instead you shoot each other all day and call it "protection".
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 22:09
You give people to right to carry guns and then your asking for it, if everyone knows that everyone has a gun, they will protect themselves with the same force, therefore bringing maybe a fist fight, into a gun fight. That's absolutely absurd, we grew out of guns years ago.
All this talk of Australia makes me think of Fosters...
Mmmm and BBQ's, stick a couple of shrimps on there and your away.;)
I like the way you have been given rights by a constitution, you make it sound like a contract: "right here on line 42 it says I can carry a gun". Hehehe very American
You give people to right to carry guns and then your asking for it, if everyone knows that everyone has a gun, they will protect themselves with the same force, therefore bringing maybe a fist fight, into a gun fight. That's absolutely absurd, we grew out of guns years ago.
Yea into Knives.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 22:11
And look how that worked out. You have adults shooting children, children shooting other children and for good measure shooting adults too. You have one of the biggest homicide rates in the world and no one feels safe anymore. Your constitution is outdated and should be at least updated. Instead you shoot each other all day and call it "protection".
Add this to my statement, please... didn't think of that, but it's true and I would have said it in a similar way, too.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 22:16
See it's not the wild west out here. People don't run around with six shooters, they just have rights (Inalienable right given to them by a higher power) and they exercise them. Remember our constitution and bill of rights is the best in the world. All America needs to do is impeach the traitors inside our government and reinstate the constitution and that's it.
LOL. I'm so tired 10 more minutes until work's over.
See its not the wild west out here. People dont run around with six shooters they just have rights (Inalienable right given to them by a higher power) and they exercise them. Remember ourconsitution and bill of rights is the best in the world all america needs to do is impeach the traitors inside our government and reinstate the constitution and thats it.
lol im so tired 10 more min till works over
Holy shit God gave you the right to use guns!?
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 22:21
Holy shit God gave you the right to use guns!?
Hallelujah! Wait Coolinator, you were slagging off Americaland for being in a mess earlier, saying it's the pits! But now you have the best constitution in the world (the only one).
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 22:22
Whatever power you believe in to protect yourself so you dont have to depend on corrupt government all the time. You know the same government who sends your troops to an illegal war in 3rd world nations. The same governments who want europe to start planting GMO food. All that junk im just stating inalienable rights. Make up your minds who gave them to you.
Remember ourconsitution and bill of rights is the best in the world
I completely agree with you. Brilliant idea! All men, women and children should carry guns and shoot each other. Will a high power automatic assault rifle be good enough? I can do 20 mags in about 2 minutes with one. Let's arm the rest of America then celebrate by shooting each other!
Your homicide rate is one of the highest in the world, no one feels safe and your police are as crooked as the hunchback of Notredame. If anything America is a way of showing the world how not to do things.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 22:23
This is coming from a person who still has a monarchy. lol
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 22:26
Well, don't you all hate me for this but from what I have seen on the news and from what I have experienced in my past my personal feelings are.
"No country is worse or better, I think the world is grade A wank and war has proven it. No one can change that as it's too crapped up as it is. Governments have made this place worse with there trying to make things better which have backfired."
Well, that's my view.
You are assuming they try to improve things, right? In my view there are many governments too de-attached from the reality of their countries to really do changes that matter.
This is coming from a person who still has a monarchy. lol
Just because we value our history, tradition and of course not allowing children guns. Is that really your best shot? If so you shouldn't even bother trying. -_-
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 22:28
This is coming from a person who still has a monarchy. lol
Don't think that a "democracy" is any better. The only difference is that in a monarchy there are less people fattening their pockets.
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 22:29
Mmmm and BBQ's, stick a couple of shrimps on there and your away.;)
How true, nice scenery for me XD.
As far as "rights" go, everyone does whatever the bloody hell they want to anyway which makes rights useless and 90% of people who break laws get away with it.
Hey, wait a minute this thread is going stupidly out of hand. We are supposed to be talking about America here not legal rights.
Just because we value our history, tradition and of course not allowing children guns. Is that really your best shot? If so you shouldn't even bother trying. -_-
Yea well I guess it's hard to value something they have so little of.
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 22:31
Feel free to express your opinions freely.
Feels like so long ago...
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 22:31
How true, nice scenery for me XD.
As far as "rights" go, everyone does whatever the bloody hell they want to anyway which makes rights useless and 90% of people who break laws get away with it.
Hey, wait a minute this thread is going stupidly out of hand. We are supposed to be talking about America here not legal rights.
Don't the subjects kind of complement themselves? It's hard talking about a country without bringing that up.
Yea well I guess it's hard to value something they have so little of.
History? Tradition? Not allowing children guns? All 3? ^_^
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 22:33
Don't the subjects kind of complement themselves? It's hard talking about a country without bringing that up.
I suppose but we have gone to talking about Europe. Well, I'll get lost then if I'm wrong.
History? Tradition? Not allowing children guns? All 3? ^_^
History and tradition though the third one gets a mention.
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 22:35
WOAH THERE! Everyone take a time out, this has turned from a discussion about America to USA vs. U.K. Lets try and have a civilised conversation please.
Everyone just take a breather!
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 22:56
WOAH THERE! Everyone take a time out, this has turned from a discussion about America to USA vs. U.K. Lets try and have a civilised conversation please.
Everyone just take a breather!
I think the conversation still hasn't degenerated all that. It's just it's easy to make comparisons when talking about any theme.
SegaMark
29-05-2008, 22:57
This is coming from a person who still has a monarchy. lol
The Monarchy is actually nothing more than a show for the tourists...
In my eyes America currently, and even historically at times is a corrupt nation that seems to think they're always correct on issues. Allowing joe public to arm themselves to the teeth is the most ridiculous idea ever, simply because people (no matter what country they're form) are generally, morons. The US doesn't do themselves favours with the fact they pretty much are to blame for global terrorism. Some Americans funded the IRA, there was no action by the US government in the past to prevent people from funding a terrorist organisation. The fact the USA openly says shit about other countries just doesn't help them whatsoever, whether it's Iran or North Korea. Way to stir the hornet's nest - dick heads.
The above statement doesn't represent my thoughts about each and every single citizen in the USA, as that would be daft, but of course I'm talking about the ridiculous presidents & regimes the world has had to put up with.
Now keep the topic clean and don't turn it into a country X vs. country Y argument.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 22:57
A friend of mine said something to me which sounds awfully logical to me:
"So the US were founded 1776, right? That means that country is about 250 years old, even a bit less. Given the cultural roots they already had, in my book the US-Americans behave imperial and self-centered like the Romans in the year 250, just with less nice architecture, music and food."
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 23:00
Ok I'm home and happy I'm outta that hell-hole I call work but anyway to set the record straight we don't allow kids to have guns and wouldn't you rather have the right to defend yourself and you family and not be completely dependent on your government?
Also we don't have democracy here we have a democratically elected republic and I'm so sad it's turning more and more into a fascist state by the week.
Also I like my country. I never said that it was the pits I said I needed to get the hell out of New York because it's too expensive to live.
Ok, continue.
ALSO, isn't it ironic that the person who is supposed to be moderating is the most aggressive? Shouldn't moderators be calm and collective? This goes back to Killer French Bread's comment from yesterday, "Absurdly aggressive".
foreversonic edit: If you are not happy with certain members of the board, send a message to the moderating team, or even SegaMark. Don't post in-thread about it because it quickly sends a thread off-topic.
Lol. Ok, I'm done.
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 23:04
ALSO isnt it ironic that the person who is supposed to be moderating is the most aggresive? Shouldnt moderators be calm and collective? this goes back to Killer french breads comment from yesterday "Absurdly aggressive"
lol ok im done
When you piss off the mods with back chat though (only you seem to be doing it as far as Ive seen) then they will get like that if it means keeping you on track. You seem to be the only person complaining here.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 23:08
I actually can completely understand the reactions of the moderators, and especially when it comes to offending nations and people by insulting them, I'd get a bit pissed, as well.
Also, no, I wouldn't see a gun as correct protection for my family and me, because if I used a gun on everyone, I would not be better than any other criminal.
Violence never is a solution. NEVER.
Edit: Yay, I've become an Opa Opa!
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 23:10
Oh my, please stop defending 32X like George Bush defends his foreign policy. Come on lets get real here.
Also I completely agree with segamark but its not just the USA its the corrupt government that have plagued many of the first world nations. UK and Australia included. Remember my country never invades countries alone you have to see the truth that europe is always itching to follow us into any blunder created to fund wallstreet. Also its not the people as you I can tell you already know from our posts how bad our education here is. Its the corrupt officials that float back and forth from corporation to government held positions and back.
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 23:12
I actually can completely understand the reactions of the moderators, and especially when it comes to offending nations and people by insulting them, I'd get a bit pissed, as well.
Also, no, I wouldn't see a gun as correct protection for my family and me, because if I used a gun on everyone, I would not be better than any other criminal.
Violence never is a solution. NEVER.
Edit: Yay, I've become an Opa Opa!
Violence only generates more violence. But sometimes the police forces should be better equipped. Some feel a little too badly equipped sometimes.
SegaMark
29-05-2008, 23:12
Ok im home and happy im outta that hellhole I call work but anyway to set the record straight we dont allow kids to have guns and wouldnt you rather have the right to defend yourself and you family and not be completely dependent on your government?
A firearms ban (while it won't rid the world of every single gun) will greatly reduce the homicide rate in the US - a person doesn't require a gun to defend themselves at the end of the day - and pointing a gun at someone can only serve to make the situation worse.
Would I trust the public with guns, would I hell. As a species we may of built some great things, but we're all greedy morons - we're just animals and no-one should have the right to carry a weapon that can cause great physical harm to another human being.
ALSO isnt it ironic that the person who is supposed to be moderating is the most aggresive? Shouldnt moderators be calm and collective? this goes back to Killer french breads comment from yesterday "Absurdly aggressive"
If you have any complaints message me, however I have not seen anything overly aggressive in this thread, just opinion. Case closed.
Dr Shaneman
29-05-2008, 23:13
Oh my, please stop defending 32X like George Bush defends his foreign policy. Come on lets get real here.
Also I completely agree with segamark but its not USA its the corrupt government that has plagued many of the first world nations. UK and Australia included. Remember my country never invades countries alone you have to see the truth that europe is always itching to follow is into any blunder created to fund wallstreet.
For your infor matey I was acting on behalf of the whole staff because you said "moderating" meaning all of them so just stop dissing everyone ok?
Tails_1986
29-05-2008, 23:14
Don't forget that most of humanity's greatest achivements came as a military idea or born out of pure greed. All others came by sheer luck.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 23:23
Don't forget that most of humanity's greatest achievements came as a military idea or born out of pure greed. All others came by sheer luck.
I don't believe that at all, most of our enlightenment extends from peace time in the 1400-1600's Renaissance
My question is how do we stop my countries corrupt leaders and other first world corrupt politics so the world can be a safer place. I believe get armed and get aware of the fact that if you don't get politically active and knowledgeable about your surroundings then you are in a lot of trouble.
Also SegaMark guns will always fall into the hands of criminals isn't it just common practice to protect yourself? I mean in a boxing match wouldn't you cover your face up with your gloves instead of giving your gloves at the beginning of the match to the referee? I understand where your coming from but you have to realize that guns protect people not hurt them.
Case in point: Two illegal aliens broke into a house in a suburb, the neighbor saw this and got his gun. Called 911 and the police officer said don't go outside. The man said screw this I'm going out there they are stealing my friends stuff. Man went outside and stopped the thieves. See? There are success stories.
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 23:27
That's a terrible case point, insurance will pay for stolen goods, but I bet that in the same situation someone's been shot due to 'bravery'.
Yes guns will fall into criminal hands, and chances are they won't shoot you if you're unarmed, if you have a gun your definately going to be shot.
As mark pointed out with everyone carrying guns it just exacerbates the situation.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 23:30
Don't forget that the USA was only so successful in science because of the loads of German and Austrian scientiests who emigrated into the USA in WW2. Germany and Austria had the best scientists back then (think of names as Einstein, Sigmund Freud, etc.). However, the USA always claimed the inventions of these emigrants, whom they treated like the last pieces of crap, as American inventions.
It's something I never was comfortable with: that insane arrogance, nationalism and judging of other cultures and political systems. Especially because the US-American education proves how well the US-American people know about other cultures and political systems (example: Coolinator not knowing that UK was part of the EU since the early 70s or saying constitutional monarchy is the same as absolute monarchy).
Before behaving like the world police and branding nations as rogue state, I would think about my own nation. The USA are the the Western nation with the highest amount of crimes and especially the highest amount of death by gunshots. Practiaclly more than all European countries and Canada together. Yeah, that's right, Mr. Coolinator. How about that? Very protective, eh?
Also, there was practially no year since 1945, where the USA had no war with another nation.
Without US-American intervention the Middle-Eastern conflict would not be existing, and Israel and Palestine probably would already be at peace.
Oh, and what about environment? I rather don't start about that.
Before judging others, mind your own business, please.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 23:31
So we should just grovel at their feet? Let them take our things and just sit there and shiver?
Gotta disagree with that.
But back to the point is the USA really that bad when states like Israel (who in my opinion has done more harm then good) and the rest of the nations that help us condone our practices?
I mean I'm just upset at all the crooked nations not just my own.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 23:35
It still would be better than killing them.
SegaMark
29-05-2008, 23:37
But you have to consider the fact that if there are more firearms knocking about, then people will get hold of them a lot easier. You have to admit if guns were harder to get hold of, armed robberies/burglaries would drop considerably as guns wouldn't find their way into the hands of some people who are opportunists at the end of the day.
Take away a gun and a lot of petty criminals would simply not bother as the element of risk upon them is greater. With a gun you can maintain a distance, with another weapon such as a knife you have to get up close, thus being a risk to the person committing the crime. Banning guns can also act as a deterrent at the end of the day.
There will always be guns involved with organised crime, but your gangs really don't give a shit about burgling your house or holding up a little corner shop...
Case in point: Two teenagers went into my grandfathers shop just last month with knifes, demanding cigarettes and cash. My grandfather banjoed one of the pricks on a head with a rolling pin, they did a runner and soon were arrested anyway... Add guns into that and things could of been a hell of a lot worse.
So we should just grovel at their feet? Let them take our things and just sit their and shiver?
Refer to my story about my grandfather - you don't need a gun to defend yourself.
TheCoolinator
29-05-2008, 23:41
Don't forget that the USA was only so successful in science because of the loads of German and Austrian scientists who emigrated into the USA in WW2. Germany and Austria had the best scientists back then (think of names as Einstein, Sigmund Freud, etc.). However, the USA always claimed the inventions of these emigrants, whom they treated like the last pieces of crap, as American inventions.
It's something I never was comfortable with: that insane arrogance, nationalism and judging of other cultures and political systems. Especially because the US-American education proves how well the US-American people know about other cultures and political systems (example: Coolinator not knowing that UK was part of the EU since the early 70s or saying constitutional monarchy is the same as absolute monarchy).
Before behaving like the world police and branding nations as rogue state, I would think about my own nation. The USA are the the Western nation with the highest amount of crimes and especially the highest amount of death by gunshots. Practically more than all European countries and Canada together. Yeah, that's right, Mr. Coolinator. How about that? Very protective, eh?
Also, there was practically no year since 1945, where the USA had no war with another nation.
Without US-American intervention the Middle-Eastern conflict would not be existing, and Israel and Palestine probably would already be at peace.
Oh, and what about environment? I rather don't start about that.
Before judging others, mind your own business, please
Excuse me my angry Austrian friend. Blaming everything on the USA is not going to help you and before bringing the environment in here I just want you to know that Greece just spilled hexavalent chromium out of one of their factories into the water supply; but anyway Mr. Austrian, I guess you can't see that it's not just the USA involved, it's many other countries in the UN and the EU. Don't start pointing your finger at us, point it at our officials. They hijacked our republic and furthermore, my knowledge of the EU is not too important considering I am not in it. I guess arrogance is a characteristic of both Austrians and Americans. LOL.
Give everyone a break, Austrian. Calm down.
Also, what has Austria done in the last 100 years? Not much I say. Have you found out how to harness running water yet?
SegaMark, I got to still disagree. It's a right here and it can't be taken away, remember? If our government is bad, which it is, then who will protect us from it? The police that work for them? The gangs and crooks? No, it's us.
ALSO isnt it ironic that the person who is supposed to be moderating is the most aggresive? Shouldnt moderators be calm and collective? this goes back to Killer french breads comment from yesterday "Absurdly aggressive"
First of all this is bullshit, a mod's personality doesn't matter all they have to do is make sure the rules are enforced.
Also SegaMark guns will always fall into the hands of criminals isnt it just common practice to protect yourself? I mean in a boxing match wouldnt you cover your face up with your gloves instead of giving your gloves at the beginning of the match to the referee? I understand where your coming from but you have to realize that guns protect people not hurt them.
Oh yes fight fire with fire. Just give everyone a gun then no one has to worry about guns, might aswell give everyone cancer and say "well yea but now everyone knows they have it, and hey it might not kill me".
Give everyone a break austrian calm down.
Also what has austria done in the last 100 years? not much i say, have you found out how to harness running water yet?
Oh my fucking lord.
foreversonic edit: I have to agree with Reknoc. (Edited here because it's probably a bit late to reply). This is pushing it a bit.
Sherlock
29-05-2008, 23:43
I just was reacting in the same way an American would. Blaming everyone else, but not yourself, and pointing at everyone else's mistakes instead of removing your own.
Also, I am not Austrian, I am of Russian origin (despite being born here).
And yes, Austria has achieved a lot of things in the last 100 years. Ever heard of psychoanalysis? Yeah? Well, it was an Austrian who founded it.
Although I take your "harness water" comment as an insult, I will point out something out: Austria has probably the biggest availabilities of clean and drinkable water in whole Europe, and one of the best water systems in the whole world.
Did you know that there are some regions in the USA where you have to buy drinkable water in bottles, because that of the pipelines are too dirty?
SegaMark
29-05-2008, 23:45
Coolinator you asked for how the world sees your country - you know it's going to be a heated topic - the post you quoted was not angry, it was a fair opinion.
Give everyone a break austrian calm down.
Also what has austria done in the last 100 years? not much i say, have you found out how to harness running water yet?Absurd comments like the above just serve to stir things up and cause arguments, pack it in. Consider this a warning.
If you don't like the things that are being said, then you should of not started your topic? However I do have concerns you have started this topic to stir things up - so I'll be keeping a close eye on the direction this discussion takes.
p_nut_uk
29-05-2008, 23:54
My opinion of Americaland isn't great. Especially since this insight of guns (which I don't want to discuss further, I have my opinions). And to answer your original question, I see America as a bullying nation that get involved in matters that are of little concern to them except thier own financial benefit. As I mentioned before I have a few American friends and I know all Americans aren't bad.
ShoShoKid
30-05-2008, 02:04
We have a shitty foreign policy, and a president who managed to take Bill Clinton's surplus and turn it into our largest deficit ever. Whatever, I hardly care as I am getting out of this sinking ship after college, I have already spoken to people from New Zealand about immigrating there (legally! Crazy, not a concept here in the states).
My main issues though are illegal immigration and the war. Our schools complain about money and then play host to many foreign children who cannot speak english and are here illegally, even going as far as to provide a separate desk person for spanish speaking families, and separate teachers to teach them english.
Illegal immigrants who refuse to assimilate.... I am sure you europeans know the term "ugly american" meaning somebody who frowns upon the culture of a country they have come to visit, imagine us doing that but taking up permanent residence without paying taxes and then sending our children to your schools, and driving our cars on your roads free of charge.
As for oil, americans have it good, and it's foolish to expect gas to stay stagnant with emerging markets in China and India. I ride a Bianchi and a Honda Ruckus that gets 120 MPG, it says 105, but I have clocked it at over 120 twice now. The ruckus is cheap, no license or registration required either because the engine is under 50 CC.
Sorry for the double post but it wasn't letting me edit the last post, and I tried three times.
Anyways, not sure what everyone is talking about with guns, but the fact of the matter is only 20% of gun crimes (nut just murders) are committed with legally purchased guns, a gun ban only hurts innocent people like myself. I feel owning a gun is necessary for protection, and while you may have a smaller chance of being shot in your country per capita, there is still a chance, and I'd prefer a slightly higher chance with my right to legally own one to protect myself.
Also, Skunk, don't generalize american's as those who lack accountability, it really takes away from your argument and comes across as childish when you group different people together and label them like that.
Sherlock
30-05-2008, 09:55
Also, Skunk, don't generalize american's as those who lack accountability, it really takes away from your argument and comes across as childish when you group different people together and label them like that.
If I would do this, I wouldn't have so many friends in the states, right?
Also, this is exactly how "typical US-Americans" argue, and I only reflect on what I've experienced in the past 12 years I'm on the internet now.
As you can see on Coolinator's example: opening a topic about what the opinion of people in other countries about the USA is. They state these, and when they're critical, all what Coolinator does is offending them and their countries. That's not something I'd expect. It more looks like a reason for Coolinator opening this thread to be able to insult other people and rub in their faces that the US are the best country in the world and only in the USA you're free and can live comfortable.
And that's why I started discussing in this form. I still can't stand this behaviour and I probably never will be able to agree with it.
And after he saw that the Europeans are standing side by side and do not agree with him, hell he even got a warning from the Admin of this board, he just leaves with the words "It was fun and I'll leave you your opinions". How generous of him. He also stated that only the US-American political system is the right one, and only that one should exist. He doesn't accept other political systems, and says that they're ALL corrupt and bad. That we should fight for our right given by God to have guns and shoot the politicians, who of course according to him, are all corrupt greedy asses, out of their positions.
richarddavies
30-05-2008, 11:47
Christ i've missed a bit. Quite a tense subject this isn't it? In relation to the gun issue Im kinda torn myself to be honest. Im English and we can't legally use them but there is A quickly growing issue of gun crime in Britain. And though I agree that in Britains circumstances, overall it's better that we don't have guns, In America as much as i'd love to see gun control over there I don't personally see how it could be inforced. I think all that would happen is the honest people that do have guns for protection would be left without them but criminals would still carry them regardless. I think my problem with America in a way stems from dissapointment. Age wise America is the baby of the world. Most countries have probably thousands of years of history where America has only hundreds. My disapointment stems from the possibility's of the US and where it's actually got to. Where other countries have failed whether it be in terms of goverments or wars or racial issues, America had this chance as A new country to take note of all these failings and become something to be proud of, but instead it has just become done the exact same thing weve all done but in a much bigger way.
ShoShoKid
30-05-2008, 19:34
If I would do this, I wouldn't have so many friends in the states, right?
Also, this is exactly how "typical US-Americans" argue, and I only reflect on what I've experienced in the past 12 years I'm on the internet now.
As you can see on Coolinator's example: opening a topic about what the opinion of people in other countries about the USA is. They state these, and when they're critical, all what Coolinator does is offending them and their countries. That's not something I'd expect. It more looks like a reason for Coolinator opening this thread to be able to insult other people and rub in their faces that the US are the best country in the world and only in the USA you're free and can live comfortable.
And that's why I started discussing in this form. I still can't stand this behaviour and I probably never will be able to agree with it.
And after he saw that the Europeans are standing side by side and do not agree with him, hell he even got a warning from the Admin of this board, he just leaves with the words "It was fun and I'll leave you your opinions". How generous of him. He also stated that only the US-American political system is the right one, and only that one should exist. He doesn't accept other political systems, and says that they're ALL corrupt and bad. That we should fight for our right given by God to have guns and shoot the politicians, who of course according to him, are all corrupt greedy asses, out of their positions.
Well I didn't read the whole conversation (out of lazyness), and I was referring to all that I saw you say. Personally I feel the American government is highly corrupt, but that's just my two cents.
Woow that was a heated debate :ohmy: I sure missed a lot
I think people were being a little unfair to Coolinator....when a bunch of 10 people are tearing your country to shreds it is a little hard to ignore...
Anyways, guns are to readily avaliable in america, hear the story about the 11 year old that dressed up as Halo with his dad's rifel and shot himself in the head? That sort of thing simply wouldn't happen here...
Not they we're any better, knife crime is growing to crazy rates and it gets to the point you can't tell someone not to do it without forcing them. Until police are seen on the streets beating people XD or really taking an agressive no-mercy approach to knife crime it won't go away.
Have you guys heard of John Mcain's (appologies for spelling) running mate lady person? Holy christ....What time period is she from? Convert the gays with religion? Taunting Russia? O__O" Mcain is 70, when he bites the bullet this woman could be in charge of the biggest military power in the world....scary....and very depressing.
America is just too big a country for one person to manage, it would be like one person trying to control Europe, where each state is a country in its own right, has its own sets of problems, its just flawed...
I really really hope Mr Obama gets through T__T
ShoShoKid
21-09-2008, 07:17
I don't think Obama will break through, people who live outside the United States truly have trouble understanding exactly how wrong and corrupt american politics are. For instance, Bush mysteriously wins against Al Gore in 2000 with the major issue state being Florida? A state that the governor of just happens to be Jeb Bush, George Bush's brother? Or in 2004 how Ohio switched to voting on computers, manufactured by a company that openly donated large sums of money to Bush's presidential campaign? And it was the state that lost Kerry the election.
As for 9/11, I don't necessarily believe we orchestrated those attacks. We did in fact have intelligence we ignored that they were coming, and I do believe there is a possibility when considering operation northwoods. Operation northwoods was a document that was in the government in the 1960's which called for orchestrating a terrorist attack on US soil to rally support for a war against Cuba. See external links on the wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods#External_links).
To be honest I think even if Obama won through, he'd get assasinated, it'd be like MLK all over again >_>
Dr Shaneman
21-09-2008, 12:00
I want to make a note here if you're going to bring up this thread again and that is if I see one sign of an argument in any way then this gets locked as it caused a lot of aggravation when it was created and lead to a banning. You've been warned.
richarddavies
22-09-2008, 10:09
Yeah this thread did just start crap to be honest, i don't think coolinator came back after this.
Dr Shaneman
22-09-2008, 14:23
Yeah this thread did just start crap to be honest, i don't think coolinator came back after this.
Because he got banned.
richarddavies
22-09-2008, 14:42
Yeah i don't think he took the answer to his own question too well.
Dr Shaneman
22-09-2008, 16:21
Yeah i don't think he took the answer to his own question too well.
Well, that, the offensive PM's he gave staff after warning him and just being an ass everytime someone corrected him.
Well, that, the offensive PM's he gave staff after warning him and just being an ass everytime someone corrected him.
That's the side we don't see, his posts didn't seem too bad to me but that would certainly warrant a ban..
Sound Reaper
25-09-2008, 05:24
To be honest I think even if Obama won through, he'd get assasinated, it'd be like MLK all over again >_>
Well now, that would say something about America now wouldn't it? It's little tibits like this that made me stay away from convos of this calibur in the first place. In all honesty, if something like that happened, we (I live in the US BTW) would have a long way to go to get decent reputation back.
So, with that simplistic retort, I (hopefully) won't ever have to post in this topic again.
Well now, that would say something about America now wouldn't it? It's little tibits like this that made me stay away from convos of this calibur in the first place. In all honesty, if something like that happened, we (I live in the US BTW) would have a long way to go to get decent reputation back.
So, with that simplistic retort, I (hopefully) won't ever have to post in this topic again.
I don't mean to insult, I just get the feeling it'd happen.
Because America is such a large country there's various supremacy groups that I'm sure would hate to even think of Obama having power, was it not in the news a bunch of people got caught carrying guns and claimed to want to assasinate him? Or....something? :blink:
Again, the USA is such a big country, people forever focus on the minority of gunslingers and nuts and ignore the vast majority of normal every day people.
ShoShoKid
02-10-2008, 05:29
Well now, that would say something about America now wouldn't it? It's little tibits like this that made me stay away from convos of this calibur in the first place. In all honesty, if something like that happened, we (I live in the US BTW) would have a long way to go to get decent reputation back.
So, with that simplistic retort, I (hopefully) won't ever have to post in this topic again.
As if we still had a decent reputation, I need to get the hell out of this country.
What about this latest bank bailout?
They vote against it, so what does the government do? Put em all back in the room and beat them till they vote yes? Utterly insane...Some twat takes a 7 mil bonus and now thousands of families go without a christmas XD well done
Alecs MacDonald
02-10-2008, 17:42
I'm coming in late to this party. I often insult my right wing friends by telling them that the rest of the world knows more about our internal politics than you do. I am a left wing voting democrat living in my nations most conservative state. How does the rest of the world view *me*?
Is our country that much worse now than it was at the end of the last Bush administration? Is it just my imagination that our republican party paints a terrible picture of our country? Or is America as a whole viewed as "back woods baby killing close minded troublemakers?"
Really, I want to know.
I'm coming in late to this party. I often insult my right wing friends by telling them that the rest of the world knows more about our internal politics than you do. I am a left wing voting democrat living in my nations most conservative state. How does the rest of the world view *me*?
Is our country that much worse now than it was at the end of the last Bush administration? Is it just my imagination that our republican party paints a terrible picture of our country? Or is America as a whole viewed as "back woods baby killing close minded troublemakers?"
Really, I want to know.
Personally I see america in two ways...
In one way you have amazing landmarks, great achivements, fantastic people and so many places to see.
I do feel that american politics are run awfully though, there is no fairness at all, its a popularity contest, if the rubublican is all for america and a devout christian, he'll win and if not? They'll make him win.
That's the way I see it anyway, I also don't like certian states...North Carolina for example is still seems to have the view that women are totally inferior to men and should always come second.
richarddavies
02-10-2008, 17:59
To be honest you really don't wanna know what other people think of the states, just read the thread. All that'll happen is people will start arguin about it again and it gets nowhere,
To be honest you really don't wanna know what other people think of the states, just read the thread. All that'll happen is people will start arguin about it again and it gets nowhere,
I think that's untrue, so long as everyone's open-minded there's no real harm. Like everything America has some amazing points, and some horrid ones :P same could easily be said here, mars, anywhere
p_nut_uk
02-10-2008, 19:15
My view of the States has improved a lot recently, or more to the point i've come to appreciate it more. Does anyone realise what would happen if Europe and America went right down the pan financially? America would lose it's financial super-power status and you know who would be there to pick up the pieces? China, anyone with a bit of know how would know that is a terrible prospect, China have the manufacturing capacity to supply the world with everything and almost does, the western world relies heavily on China so they would be able to charge what they like if they were in charge and if you know what china is like as a whole they would drive us even further into poverty. For the first time I don't want a recession. Makes you apprecriate America a bit more I think.
Alecs MacDonald
02-10-2008, 20:15
Our moral majority is skewed. They base their vote on the republican party because of their "christian" beliefs. This narrow minded view has gotten us in trouble before. It is amazing how fast we forget things. Does anyone remember the Vietnam war? We were sending our young men and women to fight in a war with no real direction and an unrealized goal. Does that sound anything like the current conflict we are involved in?
I have caught a lot of flak for not supporting the Iraq war since the start. It has labeled me as "unpatriotic". I defy anyone to question my patriotism for my country. I believe baseing your views on chain mail and mainstream media stories is the most unpatriotic thing you can do for your country.
Read John F Kennedy's "Profiles of Courage". If you are happy with the direction this country has moved in in the last eight years, congratulations. You are on the winning team of the majority. If however you feel that we are slowly slipping away from the ideals that my grandfather and all the brave men who fought in the I, II, and Korean wars, were fighting for, then do your research. Educate yourself on issues and not on talking points. Take the time to read about the "Patriot Act" and the "Bush Doctrine". Then vote from your heart. It is the most patriotic thing you can do.
Having said that I cannot imagine anyone saying they happy with the current state of affairs in my country. Bipartisan views and voting is not the best system, but can we afford another 4 years of republican views and spending? It is fairly obvious how the rest of the world views us under our current administration. The narrow minded idea of [USA>everyone else] is backing us into a corner. It took the bush administration 8 years to get us where we are now. God only knows how long it will take to fix it.
Killer French Bread
03-10-2008, 13:06
Well I wathced a bit of the debate between the two Vice Presidential candidates last night and was fairly shocked at how crude American politics is. Biden slates Bush for some reason tenuosly linked to the question he was asked, Palin barks some rhetoric down the camera as if she's trying to hypnotise all the 'hockey Moooooms' to vote for her because she is 'the same as them', blah blah blah. It's basically politics for idiots from what I've been seeing over the last few months.
We have this show in the UK called Big Brother, it's almost a microcosm for the US election. Don't come up with anything of substance like policies and strong views, just shout a catchphrase down the camera and the idiots might start to relate to your personality after a while. Our leader of the opposition was criticised for not giving us enough policies in his conference speech learlier in the week, and this is about 2 years before any prospective election. The US candidates are still having an argument no better than that seen in a school playground and it is weeks before their election. To think the US is the de facto leader of the Western world. Frightening.
I see usa as a place to work in when I get older. I wish that when I finish my studies I could go there to work, but in the people's sense in my country, people see USA as WAR, nonsense consumism, and some other bad stuff. I am only against the fact that there is a war "once in a while" and millions of persons, human beings, innocent citizens, and US troops DIE, or have to live there the rest of their lives with a horrible mark in their bodies/minds.
richarddavies
07-10-2008, 10:55
To be fair french bread when im watching parliament im almost cringing just looking at em insult and whine at each other like 4 yr olds in a playground. We actually pay them to do that! If they put as much effort into the actual politics as they do there name calling I really think we'd be masters of the universe.
Killer French Bread
07-10-2008, 11:03
I love PM's question time. It may decend into a bit of banter at times but at least they are debating the proper issues, not simply discrediting each others reputations and trying to redifine their opponents character through the media. It's about calling the PM up on what desicions he has made, proper, relevant things that are affecting us.
richarddavies
07-10-2008, 11:25
True they talk about more relevant issues, my only problem is that it doesn't the prime ministers questions seems to takes up half of the politicians schedule but don't seem to get anything of any real value out of it except maybe some kudos points if they get a good dig in on someone. On a more relaxed level though, it can be funny.
Killer French Bread
07-10-2008, 11:39
It's only one morning a week for the actual PM's question time, but I can see the point that it doesn't often actually change things. It ends up about being an exercise in articulation most of the time which is why Gordon 'Clunking Fist' Brown fails so miserably compared to Cameron. Still, it's better than in America where they have no such equivalent and it does provide a level of transparency as to what is going on in Westminister.
richarddavies
07-10-2008, 12:13
Yeah it just seems so easy to me to be the oppostion, you just sit back and wait till something goes wrong then go " yeah, I could of done that better". Actually i've always wondered if America had an equivilant to it, I assumed they didn't as i've not heard of anything like it.
Killer French Bread
07-10-2008, 13:18
In some ways it is easy, in someways it is hard. You can cheaply criticise of course, but then if you say explicitely what you would do differently the Government can take your ideas and use them as their own, as the Tories claim Labour have done over the last couple of years. Also, from the point of view of eventually being re-lected, keeping a momentum for your party can be hard when all you are doing is basically moaning, the Tories now have a big lead in the polls but keeping that will be hard if they have to be so releuctant to show their policies for the governing. It can be a double edged sword at times.
richarddavies
07-10-2008, 13:28
Very true. Im tempted to want to give dave a try but at the same time, probably for the reasons you say. I still don't really know what he's about or how his party could change things. Kind of a catch 22 for the voter aswell. Thinking about it, it's probably why it normally decends into a popularity contest, quite often it's all you have to go on.
Killer French Bread
07-10-2008, 14:16
I don't like a lot of Labour policies, I.D. cards probably being the main one, but I don't think my family would forgive me if I ever vote Tory.
richarddavies
07-10-2008, 14:35
Have to admit always voted labour myself. Thought the I.D cards were borderline mental and the cost of it was just ridiculous, and I think Gordans as interesting as a documentry about the condition what gave Jeremy Beadle his little hand, but it's the side I chose. It's like a football team.
Newtype879
24-10-2008, 19:25
I see usa as a place to work in when I get older. I wish that when I finish my studies I could go there to work, but in the people's sense in my country, people see USA as WAR, nonsense consumism, and some other bad stuff. I am only against the fact that there is a war "once in a while" and millions of persons, human beings, innocent citizens, and US troops DIE, or have to live there the rest of their lives with a horrible mark in their bodies/minds.
Actually, this is something me and my friends talk about quite a bit. It's unfortunate to say, but the U.S. economy is pretty based on the idea of going to war, which is why (I feel) we have a "conflict" every few years, to give a kind of booster shot to the economy. Of course, some of the more recent ones (Iraq and previously Vietnam) were poorly chosen conflict sights and we are/were invested to much in them. But going into huge debate about that is for a different topic.
I only been out of the states once myself, but I'd say it's a decent place to live-especially the north eastern coast (Maryland and up) or the west coast-and work. Sure, our government isn't always the best or brightest but no one that's been in office during my life has done anything I've been overly upset about.
ShoShoKid
29-04-2009, 08:23
Well I wathced a bit of the debate between the two Vice Presidential candidates last night and was fairly shocked at how crude American politics is. Biden slates Bush for some reason tenuosly linked to the question he was asked, Palin barks some rhetoric down the camera as if she's trying to hypnotise all the 'hockey Moooooms' to vote for her because she is 'the same as them', blah blah blah. It's basically politics for idiots from what I've been seeing over the last few months.
This is absolutely correct, while we did elect Obama who is surely a better candidate than McCain, I feel that this may be the only country that would ever elect a man simply based on a catchphrase "Yes we can" or "Change"
Nobody noticed Joe Biden, Obama's pick for VP, or the generous contributions he had received in the past from MBNA. MBNA was once the second largest Credit Card company in the US before being bought out by Bank Of America, and had given Biden a number of questionable campaign contributions that may have had something to do with how he changed his stance on Bankruptcy laws.
Outside of just campaign contributions there were a number of personal 'gifts' that raise questions, such as; Giving Biden's son a nice executive position, and how the President of MBNA had paid (excuse me if I am mistaken) roughly a quarter of a million dollars more than Joe Biden's house was actually appraised for or worth.
Sherlock
29-04-2009, 10:31
Why did you bump this thread? ~_~
Anyway, better a VP Biden than a VP Palin, don't you think so?
Dr Shaneman
29-04-2009, 11:02
Why did you bump this thread? ~_~
Anyway, better a VP Biden than a VP Palin, don't you think so?
It's better to bump than start a new thread. Plus his post was big.
richarddavies
29-04-2009, 11:11
^ It doesn't bug me too much if someone bumps a thread if they've actually got something to say. Just grates with me if they see a 6 month dead thread about a game for example then just post " oh I like this:)"
Well now that Obama's been in office for a few months I think it's very appropriate for it to be bumped, don't you? Have anyone's views changed?
I'd say mine have, he seems to be doing a good job and making a fair ammount of changes so far.
richarddavies
29-04-2009, 17:02
He seems to be doing ok. If anything I was worried that Obama was being overhyped. I was expecting a quick backlash when he didn't instantly change the world.
He seems to be doing ok. If anything I was worried that Obama was being overhyped. I was expecting a quick backlash when he didn't instantly change the world.
He's done what I'd expect really.
He puts on a great face for the media, people like him and he can contirubte positively and intelligently to debates.
He outlawed the torture tactics and he's mentioned doing things about the envionment as well, which is positive stuff.
mudokon100
29-04-2009, 17:33
Can't say I've been following american politics much lately, but it seems in better shape than it was before Obama. He certainly seems to have impressed the right people.
Killer French Bread
29-04-2009, 17:41
One thing we do know now: Barak Obama is one of the worst present givers ever.
One thing we do know now: Barak Obama is one of the worst present givers ever.
It isn't his fault Gordon Brown doesn't know how to region unlock his DVD player!XD
Mr. Domino
30-04-2009, 02:36
He seems to be doing ok. If anything I was worried that Obama was being overhyped. I was expecting a quick backlash when he didn't instantly change the world.
The GOP and rednecks throughout the South have been painting him in that same light since he was campaigning for president. You'll never hear any Obama supporter calling him a Messiah or "the greatest president," but that's all you'll here out of the GOP and talk radio as they desparately look to disparage him. It's rather disgusting, and I do see it as a thinly veiled form racism. It's fine to disagree with policy, but people have been lying about Obama and his actions since day one, beginning with harping on him being black. Too many haters just don't get it and continue to see Obama's election as one of race (and "communism,Taliban loving, US hating," etc. etc. :wacko: ) instead of the policies and change he represented in the election.
I really think the Republican party will die within a few years as its become a haven for religious extremists and hillbilly crackpots. I'd love to see that happen with the stipulation that government by party is terrible for democracy, and perhaps a continuous super majority of elected leaders based on principles of reason and pragmatism will do away with the need to flaunt party banners and give way to actual, intelligent discourse. As it is, the Democratic party is quite centrist in its actions and leaves the GOP with little to promote as a platform other than banning gay marriages, teaching Creationism in schools, and other Christian-based fundamentist policies. All the Republicans can pray for is that the economy doesn't turn the corner within Obama's tenure so that it can paint him as a failure come 2012.
Wolfdemon59
02-05-2009, 17:43
Both partys always have there ups and downs, its an endless cycle.
But i hate how the republicans are acting right now, when Bush was president and if u complain about him they reply by "Do you hate America? how can you complain about our president?" and now there complaining about Obama about every little thing he does.
Plus trying to say that the economy crisis is Obamas fault when it was Bushes stupid fault with his stupid plans he put in place back in 04 to win the election. American politics is cruel but its what pushes the country forward unforately.
But anyway,
Hey lets call Obama so he can give us some gifts xD
MrEthernex
24-05-2009, 05:45
I really think the Republican party will die within a few years...It would make sense. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress), the 111th (current) US Congress's House and Senate majorities are Democratic, along with a Democratic president.
And @Wolfdemon: I hate how the Republicans are acting, too. You should've seen some of the Republicans I know. They knew more about Obama than they did about McCain! XD
After a story one of the opticians I work with shared with me on Friday, I think certain American people might need to relearn phonetics.
Basically, they'd gone up to ask him where Loughborough was. But instead of pronouncing Loughborough like..you know..Loughborough, they came up with this (I've tried to spell it phonetically):
Laroogahbaroogah (La-Roo-Gah Ba-Roo-Gah)
Oh dear America, oh dear.
Killer French Bread
24-05-2009, 15:55
I've heard Australians trying the Loogaboroogah pronunciation before. Must have been fresh off the boat, stumbling around Leicester city centre coyly asking for directions. It was my mate that finally figured out what the hell they were on about and could send them on their way. An amusing encounter that's often recounted.
Adam Novagen
24-05-2009, 16:48
I only have one thing to say here, then I'm out: I'm on the wrong planet. Actually, anyone in this thread who's really upset with corrupt/stupid governments & peoples is on the wrong planet. There's only one halfway-decent & safe community left anymore, and that's the Tibetan monastery. Other than that, the world's had it.
What can we do about this? Do we desperately try & change our governments? Do we try & overthrow them? Do we try to find somewhere else? No, no, and no. It's about US. Not the U.S., but US, you and me & everybody. Working together, just doing our bit, calmly & peacefully going about our everyday lives, sorting out our issues one by one. Given enough time, the governments would become moot points, & we'd all get back on track. All it needs is a little daily sacrifice from each & every one of us. I would remind you all of that song from Sonic R:
We all need to work together
To build a better life
To make it what we feel,
We have to make it REAL
We all need to remember
That nothing in this world comes for free
We have to make it what we want
Just you and me and EVERYBODY
Work it out,
Think about it
Work it out,
Talk about it
Work it out,
Make it happen
Let's work it out
We've got to make it real
We've got to make it real
Anyone up for a new world? :)
Killer French Bread
24-05-2009, 17:12
I don't know what the fuck you're on about. To be honest.
I think he's trying to say that the governments of the world are corrupt, and the only way to fix it would be to abandon Earth and start afresh.
Thing is, it's not government that's the problem, it's people. Even if you could just fly away and colonise on a new planet, the same situations would eventually play out. Wars, corruption etc etc.
Killer French Bread
24-05-2009, 17:51
It's a muddled message alright. He starts by saying everybody that dislikes the world should leave, if they could, for another planet. Now I don't know about you, but I don't really like the idea of living on a planet full of revolutiory disposed Che Guevara wannabes, which would probably be the type making up the population give the entry requiremnts, much more than this world.
And the argument about people not trying to change things isn't strictly true either: every time we vote we exercise our voice on what we want to happen, even if that is by not voting - that is still what that person chose to do given the opportunity; that was their action, to keep things the same. If anything, democracy, the process of periodically changing the direction our society is going by collective force, is one of the divisive factors in life. Too many people are constantly trying to change things for their own end and our system allows it. Emotional protest against all of this is hardly going to end it all, it's more of the same but even more intense. It's barely any different to using the death penalty to stop fatal crime.
When he whistfully mentions the ideal of governments being 'moot points' I wonder speculatively if he means he wants a strictly lassez faire system of society - no government in effect, and a constitution being the only overuling factor in life with everyone being considered equal in status. But I doubt it. It's not very 'Bhuddist' in the sense that everything is ordered from the small actions of people upwards, as opposed to some some Dalai dictating to the minions of unequal subjects.
So maybe he just craves a bit more order to things; less of the rule bending by the powerful. Be that order enforced by a robust set of legal laws or a benelovant dictator. And on that point, if it is what he intend to say, I'll agree with him.
MrEthernex
25-05-2009, 09:54
Loughborough
Laroogahbaroogah (La-Roo-Gah Ba-Roo-Gah)I promise you, I neither would nor would have pronounced it like that. To be honest, my first guess on the pronunciation was along the lines of low-burrow, but Wiki says it's luf-buh-ruh (something like that, correct me if I'm wrong), which makes sense, so yeah. At least my guess was more educated than the other one.
America is becoming more uneducated as time goes by. Don't worry, I actually care about my education. :)
Adam Novagen
25-05-2009, 22:42
Thing is, it's not government that's the problem, it's people.That's EXACTLY what I meant. Sorry guys, I'm not always very coherent when my passion for life gets in the way. :blush:
no government in effect, and a constitution being the only overuling factor in life with everyone being considered equal in status.Well, sort of; I realize that there'll probably always be leaders & followers, but basically, I think that right now, we don't have leaders & followers; we have selfish controllers & unthinking masses. It's about the people, which really is what any society consists of, no matter what its government. If the peoples of the world really started pulling together, with their hearts & minds really IN it, we might get somewhere. Here's an example of modern society's thoughtless hypocricy:
"OMG, the planet's in danger from greenhouse gases! This is a huge problem, we gotta do something about this!"
5 minutes later:
"Wait, I have to give up my CAR?! The heck with THAT!"
No one takes responsibility, no one really goes forward. And heck, we're just as bad; we still have cars & use 'em. Can't afford Hybrids, but we don't use bikes either. It's just... I dunno.
I only have one thing to say here, then I'm out:Hehe... So much for THAT idea... :rolleyes:
Anyway, this thread is getting too depressing. I'm gonna go cheer myself up. If anyone wants to join me, you could try a little something I wrote yesterday (http://adam-novagen.deviantart.com/art/Joy-123666645); it might help put a few smiles back again. See ya! :gottogo:
mudokon100
26-05-2009, 03:28
"OMG, the planet's in danger from greenhouse gases! This is a huge problem, we gotta do something about this!"
5 minutes later:
"Wait, I have to give up my CAR?! The heck with THAT!"
No one takes responsibility, no one really goes forward. And heck, we're just as bad; we still have cars & use 'em. Can't afford Hybrids, but we don't use bikes either. It's just... I dunno.
Something I have some knowledge on that I can comment on: We CAN afford "hybrid" cars. Proper ones, that run off of sea water. But the governments refuse to let them be mass-produced because they'd lose their oh-so-precious fuel tax. It sounds like a conspiracy theory, I know, but at least this one actually makes sense.
But everyone knows the triangles on dollars are illuminati symbols, right?
Adam Novagen
26-05-2009, 16:59
Yeah, but that's not quite what I meant; I was referring to my actual family not being able to afford a Hybrid. :)
Killer French Bread
26-05-2009, 17:15
Walk then.
Hybrids are a false economy anyways. They have to fly all the specialist parts from the four corners from the globe which is bad for the environment and a good diesel gets more miles to the gallon.:) Aparently the total environmental impact of a Toyota Prickus is greater than that of a Land Rover discovery 3.XD
ShoShoKid
11-06-2009, 13:36
Getting back to topic. Seeing what Mr. Obama is up to in the white house. I am beginning to question some odd choices he has made.
For example since he came into office the number of private mercenaries in Iraq has grown 23% I find this extremely odd if he intends on bringing America out of this war by his withdrawal date. It raises the question of whether or not he intends to leave a private military behind in Iraq. Here (http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=4505)
Not too mention the increased use of drones, from LA Times:"I realize that they do damage to the Al Qaeda leadership," he told the House Armed Services Committee. But that, he said, was not enough to justify the program. "Since 2006, we've killed 14 senior Al Qaeda leaders using drone strikes; in the same time period, we've killed 700 Pakistani civilians in the same area.
Here (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcmanus3-2009may03,0,7133284.column). Not a Obama quote above.
Lastly, he originally promised single payer health insurance (http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/june/barack_obama_on_sing.php). Now he is considering mandatory health insurance (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/health/policy/04health.html?_r=1&ref=politics) for the general public, except for those 'who can't afford it' (AKA welfare folks will be covered by the government free of charge), through a sort of undefined private-public insurance plan.
Mass. is the only state in the union with this broken mandatory Health Insurance idea, and it's worked out great for the private companies who get a windfall profit and get to charge whatever they like. Not for us, the people.
If you are a citizen then you get a tax penalty of $912 a year for not getting yourself health insurance, the state decides who can afford it and classifies anybody who makes $15,433 or above as somebody who can afford it.
To break it down for you mathematically so you foreigners can understand how asinine that figure is it would require you don't spend the following:
average rent $651 per month, so 651 x 12 = $7,812
average annual food cost for one person 249.50 x 12 = $2,994
average annual cost of electricity (not counting water) $88.80 x 12 = $1,065.60
average annual income tax on $15,433 = $1,897
annual EPA estimated fuel cost for a extremely cheap, fuel efficient car like a Geo Metro = $893
median annual car insurance premium = $900
So after all is said and done, and after paying for these necessities you have spent $15,561 or $128 more than you earned that year. On the bright side, you can afford health insurance according to the state of Massachusetts.
Mr. Domino
13-06-2009, 22:20
To break it down for you mathematically so you foreigners can understand how asinine that figure is
Pulling numbers out of your butt does not help advance any viewpoint you may hold, nor does trying to speak about Mass. policy from behind an Oregon tagged account. I've seen people claiming it cost $269,520 to raise a baby (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp), which is complete bunk. It's fine if you have an issue with a proposed policy change, but please keep it grounded in reality.
Sound Reaper
13-06-2009, 23:52
Pulling numbers out of your butt does not help advance any viewpoint you may hold, nor does trying to speak about Mass. policy from behind an Oregon tagged account. I've seen people claiming it cost $269,520 to raise a baby (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp), which is complete bunk. It's fine if you have an issue with a proposed policy change, but please keep it grounded in reality.
I'm going to have to agree with you, really. This is one of those things that I don't want to get into detail with, but I'm glad you could simplify a few things I had in mind myself.
ShoShoKid
14-06-2009, 04:35
Pulling numbers out of your butt does not help advance any viewpoint you may hold, nor does trying to speak about Mass. policy from behind an Oregon tagged account. I've seen people claiming it cost $269,520 to raise a baby (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp), which is complete bunk. It's fine if you have an issue with a proposed policy change, but please keep it grounded in reality.
None of those numbers were pulled "out of my butt", they are estimated averages that are done through studies that are far more valid than our guesses given the data that they had available to them.
While I agree to a certain extent with that figure being bunk, that you presented. It presents the flaws straight away in the first example, housing, it's assuming that 100-150 square feet are either added or reserved for that child and takes that out of the total cost of the living space.
Then with transportation it assumes you buy their car, pay their insurance, and have to pay for repairs at some point assuming something goes wrong with it.
My figures, such as average rent are just that, rent costs. Annual food costs are only annual food costs for one person and my math was done by the so-called 'moderate' plan. The annual cost of electricity could include more than one person in a household admittedly, there is room for error in that one on behalf of my argument.
The income tax figure is the tax bracket that person would be in, and the annual gas cost is based off how many miles the average american drives per year and is a EPA estimate. Given in my case I drive significantly less because I tend to ride a bike more often than drive.
Anyways, I am not sure you completely understood my point. All I was saying was affording health insurance while trying to pay for these necessities looks extremely hard if possible at all.
While I will wait to hear Obama explain his health plan more thoroughly he has not been specific enough as to how he plans this 'mandatory' health insurance, and it's important that we avoid the pitfalls of Massachusetts plan.
If you are denying that it would be hard to live off $15,433 a year and not have a health insurance policy, then surely you must make considerably more?
average rent $651 per month, so 651 x 12 = $7,812 Figure taken from US Census 2003 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/H150-03.pdf), which is the most recent year the US census took housing data
average annual food cost for one person 249.50 x 12 = $2,994 < this is a slightly outdated figure US Census (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/09s0708.pdf)
average annual cost of electricity (not counting water) $88.80 x 12 = $1,065.60 This figure was pulled off Energy Information Administration's website (http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/electricity/electricity.html), taking into consideration average number of cents per kwh and the average american household using a rough estimate of 10,000 kwh per year.
average annual income tax on $15,433 = $1,897 Found through H&R Blocks calculator
annual EPA estimated fuel cost for a extremely cheap, fuel efficient car like a Geo Metro = $893 This figure is an official EPA estimate (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/6513.shtml)
MrEthernex
14-06-2009, 07:03
America needs to switch to bikes or vegetable ethanol (don't know what else to call it, but I was going to call it just "corn"). Not an easy task, but it'll pay out in the long run. We would look just like this:
http://www.greenpacks.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/pamela-anderson-bicycle-riding.jpg
XD
ShoShoKid
14-06-2009, 07:44
I like the starbucks while riding.
Mr. Domino
14-06-2009, 15:44
Anyways, I am not sure you completely understood my point. All I was saying was affording health insurance while trying to pay for these necessities looks extremely hard if possible at all.
[...]
If you are denying that it would be hard to live off $15,433 a year and not have a health insurance policy, then surely you must make considerably more?
Depends on the plan really. For a single person, it's doable as most single coverage rates from my experience tend to hover around $50US per check. Then again, you also seem to assume that health coverage is dependent upon health insurance, which just isn't the case. There are numerous clinics and learning hospitals where the poor and uninsured can seek treatment for free or at severely reduced cost. I know, because I don't have insurance myself (don't really believe in it), and when I needed an emergency operation five or so years ago, I got it via the university supported hospital. Of course, access to such depends on which region of the country you live in, ie., city versus rural.
While I will wait to hear Obama explain his health plan more thoroughly he has not been specific enough as to how he plans this 'mandatory' health insurance, and it's important that we avoid the pitfalls of Massachusetts plan.1) This isn't Obama's plan. The plan is being created and debated upon by Congress. Obama is basically just urging health care reform as a means to tackle spiraling costs.
2) What are these "pitfalls" you keep saying regarding the Mass. plan? Everyone I know there is fine with it. You might try to cite cost, but the cost of living and by extension wages are higher there than in other parts of the country. It'd be akin to complaining about the high cost of living in Manhattan based on averages without contemplating that those citizens who live there are more than able and willing to pay the rents.
ShoShoKid
15-06-2009, 10:14
Depends on the plan really. For a single person, it's doable as most single coverage rates from my experience tend to hover around $50US per check. Then again, you also seem to assume that health coverage is dependent upon health insurance, which just isn't the case. There are numerous clinics and learning hospitals where the poor and uninsured can seek treatment for free or at severely reduced cost. I know, because I don't have insurance myself (don't really believe in it), and when I needed an emergency operation five or so years ago, I got it via the university supported hospital. Of course, access to such depends on which region of the country you live in, ie., city versus rural.
1) This isn't Obama's plan. The plan is being created and debated upon by Congress. Obama is basically just urging health care reform as a means to tackle spiraling costs.
2) What are these "pitfalls" you keep saying regarding the Mass. plan? Everyone I know there is fine with it. You might try to cite cost, but the cost of living and by extension wages are higher there than in other parts of the country. It'd be akin to complaining about the high cost of living in Manhattan based on averages without contemplating that those citizens who live there are more than able and willing to pay the rents.
In response to your "it's doable" comment, for one person I don't believe it is doable really. Mass. has extremely expensive insurance, according to this article (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/) at the boston globe:
" For an individual earning $31,213, the cheapest plan can cost $9,872 in premiums and out-of-pocket payments."
1/3rd of your income just to health insurance is doable? I don't believe so. Also worth noting, I am not assuming anything regarding health coverage, the Mass. clearly states mandatory Health Insurance. Obama also mentioned that he would be open to mandatory health insurance in the article I linked to in my first post regarding this, here is the quote.
President Barack Obama expressed his willingness to accept a bill from Congress that would make health insurance mandatory for citizens of the United States and that would make the cost also be covered by employers.
“If we are going to make people responsible for owning health insurance, we must make health care affordable”.
In response to number 1, fine, his current stance. Regardless he shouldn't be willing to accept it.
And in response to number 2. Really? First off, you don't think it's a pitfall that they would mandate you to have health insurance and then give you a tax penalty of $900 some odd dollars for not getting it in the first place? This coming from somebody who doesn't believe in Health insurance?
Or how about charging somebody that $900 tax penalty when they are at the poverty stricken wage of 15-17 thousand a year. As a part-time worker/part-time student I make about 8-9 thousand per year, if I had real bills I cannot imagine (even doubling it) being a survivable wage in the first place. It's not a fortune and anybody who says otherwise has never had to work with it.
Anyways, outside of my points earlier the Boston Globe article says that the Institute of Medicine has defined five criteria for healthcare reform. Mass. fails all 5, including:
It isn't universal and has left many uninsured, 200,000 and counting.
The reform does not make exceptions for those who lost their jobs or changed them, meaning you have to pay for insurance even during unemployment. The Article states that the private insurance premiums are too much for small businesses, something Obama has said must be exempt in the reform.
Program isn't affordable for even middle class citizens, and low-income citizens who were once eligible for free care are now required to pay expensive co-payments.
The costs for the state have been high. Spending has doubled for Commonwealth Care, from $630 Million to 1.3 Billion. A unsustainable sum according to the Globe.
Does not assure access to care. High-deductible plans are resulting in people not using their insurance.
Hope that is enough pitfalls, Obama has stated quite adamantly that those who are 'unable' to afford Health insurance should be exempt as well as small businesses. So that's resolved, I just want to know what will be classified as 'unable' to afford and whether or not the figure will be as bunk as Mass. $15,433 or above figure.
I also want to know how much this will actually cost, and whether or not he will just be lining the insurance companies pockets where they get free reign over a necessity that becomes law. Car insurance companies would charge me nearly $300 a month for insurance on a new sedan, I don't want the same figure for health insurance.
Lastly, I don't want mandatory health insurance. With car insurance you have to have it for the protection of others and their assets. Not just you, and even then I wish we had public non-profit, car insurance. Those high premiums stopped me from buying a new car.
Mr. Domino
17-06-2009, 01:27
In response to your "it's doable" comment, for one person I don't believe it is doable really. Mass. has extremely expensive insurance, according to this article (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/) at the boston globe
Your "article" is an op-ed piece by one doctor complaining she's not satisfied with the plan. Big whoop. One person's opinion nor cherry picked anecdotes or facts is hardly means for a worthwhile framework of a true statement that fails to consider all variables and situations inherent in a given issue.
No offense, but I stopped reading right there. I've learned over the years that when someone responds with an essay to a simple paragraph on-line, said person is usually a crackpot and/or just not worth the effort. I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion and don't mean to be arrogant about it, but the above is more than enough of a tip off for me based on my experience. :P Goodluck fighting the good fight about Mass. state health care policy from Oregon, though. :biggrin:
ShoShoKid
18-06-2009, 07:34
Your "article" is an op-ed piece by one doctor complaining she's not satisfied with the plan. Big whoop. One person's opinion nor cherry picked anecdotes or facts is hardly means for a worthwhile framework of a true statement that fails to consider all variables and situations inherent in a given issue.
No offense, but I stopped reading right there. I've learned over the years that when someone responds with an essay to a simple paragraph on-line, said person is usually a crackpot and/or just not worth the effort. I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion and don't mean to be arrogant about it, but the above is more than enough of a tip off for me based on my experience. :P Goodluck fighting the good fight about Mass. state health care policy from Oregon, though. :biggrin:
Ehh, you clearly missed my point. I was never fighting Mass. health care policy, I was merely applying it's results to what could potentially happen should a mandatory health insurance system be put in place on a national level.
I was never considering variables. I imagine some can afford it considering the average household income in Mass. is $59,000, but my point was many cannot and that was a large part of my argument.
Lastly, as a argument to the my "cherry picked" facts comment, I find those who refuse to accept statistics are not worth arguing with either. They will never accept that their opinion on the general public based off personal samplings ("Everyone I know there is fine with it.") is less valid than a study by a professional institution or a government agency.
Mr. Domino
18-06-2009, 22:16
I was never considering variables. I imagine some can afford it considering the average household income in Mass. is $59,000, but my point was many cannot and that was a large part of my argument.
I still don't take much stock in your figures seeing a number of employees I service can easily afford the Metlife plans we use, which I've said roughly come out to $50/check ($1,300/year -- hardly 1/3 anyone's salary, even at the minimum wage). Granted, other variables can adjust those figures here and there, but by and large, the employed can afford health care if they want it. Of course, I believe you need to understand that the world is not a Utopia, and I can see instances where hard luck would make things difficult for some. Welcome to life.
I say you cherry pick your figures because you appear to look up stuff on-line without rationalizing the source (as you did the op-ed piece) and gravitate towards that which affirm your preconceived notion of some subject topic. I dismiss your argument because 1) this is hardly the topic for such a discussion, 2) you're a kid with no relevant experience regarding the topic, and 3) you're from Oregon for god sakes. :P Admittedly, from your perception, I'm a clueless stranger as well, and this is why it's such a waste of time to debate things of this nature on-line. For all you know, I can be a hospital administrator myself, and you'd not know nor care, and none of what I say would have any influence on your own prescribed belief set. It's not worth doing thesis level research and footnoting for stupid Internet discussions which accomplish nothing. Again, not trying to be rude here, but it's just how it is. :)
If I'm being honest, I'm fairly sure this level of debate is far too advanced for most of us :p I can't even be bothered to read it, most of it falls under the "tl;dr" catagory.
Anybody care to fill me in on the basic jist of it all, so that I can throw my opinion into the ring?
The economy sucks and the government are doing nothing to help it, setting ironic boundries to be eligable for support, but once you meet their strict criteria, you no longer need the support. And something about cars.
Dr Shaneman
20-06-2009, 12:48
Well, British TV has been taking the piss out of the US since I can remember. So it's quite obvious what we see them as.
Kaito-kun
20-06-2009, 13:39
Well, British TV has been taking the piss out of the US since I can remember. So it's quite obvious what we see them as.
I'm not so sure: I think it's toned down quite a bit since the end of the Dubya Bush era.
Doesn't stop this from being funny though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BAM5hMMp0M
Dr Shaneman
20-06-2009, 15:37
Well, Bush was mostly the main target.
Robochao
07-07-2009, 23:13
If you talk to the folks on Omegle.com, they mostly say that USA looks like a pretty cool place.
China wants to get away from their corrupt government and people from Iran also hate their homeland now too.
Other people I don't think like us very much though ever since there's been ungodly rumors of North Korea testing super nukes.
Hehe, think USA will be destroyed by our enemies?
Not likely.
Mani231290
14-08-2009, 18:51
9/11 was an inside job!
Did you know jet fuel does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel?
:O
Wolfdemon59
15-08-2009, 02:08
9/11 was an inside job!
Did you know jet fuel does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel?
:O
:wacko:
Im sorry for being rude or something.
Your an idiot, but i dont want to get into detail about weird conspiracy's .
I just believe things that actually make sense.What people say is The Twin Towers' steel infrastructures was blown off by the impact, most building experts(cant think of the right name) were amazed that the towers kept standing after many columns were wiped out. The FIRES didnt melt the steel, it weakened the trusses supporting the floors, making the floors sag. The sagging floors pulled on the exterior steel columns to the point where exterior columns bowed inward. ect ect ect.
To me that actually makes sense cause it has happened before, just not to a huge building like the WTC.
Ive heard some weeeeirder conspiracys like it was a missle that had a hologram device to make it look like a plane lmao XD
Now back to the topic :blink:
Killer French Bread
15-08-2009, 12:56
Stephen Hawking would have been sentenced to death if he was British and used the NHS!
Dr Shaneman
15-08-2009, 13:17
Stephen Hawking would have been sentenced to death if he was British and used the NHS!
How true.
SegaMark
16-08-2009, 00:17
Stephen Hawking would have been sentenced to death if he was British and used the NHS!
I know, our DEATH PANEL in this country is sick. God bless the current US health system which puts lives before profits. We should have the same "healthcare" model here. ;)
mudokon100
16-08-2009, 12:17
I know, our DEATH PANEL in this country is sick. God bless the current US health system which puts lives before profits. We should have the same "healthcare" model here. ;)
Might I be the first one to say "Buuuuuurned".
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