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NiGHTS into Dreams...
01-03-2007, 23:43
Alright, I know SEGA is a shadow of its former self, but I think there is maybe hope for our beloved company. Here is a place for us to list the top things that you believe that SEGA can do to reclaim its holy throne.

1. Drop the Sonic games.
I love Sonic 20 times more than the other guy, but the rapidity and the quality of the Sonic games is becoming more and more inversely proportional. I'm not saying SEGA needs to lose Sonic and find another mascot, I'm simply saying SEGA needs to make fewer games, and make each on an event. Three games a year is too much.

2. Use their back-catalog. SEGA has a long history of classic games, and they're not taking advantage of any of it! They also have a HUGE number of Arcade games, many of which would be great for Next-Gen consoles like the Wii and PS3.

3. Make GOOD Games. Yakuza and SONIC were, to be honest, complete and total shit. SEGA is not incapable of making good games, they've made a few. They just don't know how to push back a game's release without cancelling it.

4. Release a new system. SEGA was almost on the way to redemption with the Dreamcast, and if they'd waited a few months, they'd have won. Next Generation, I'd be really excited to see a new SEGA system.

5. PROPE. Yuji Naka now has his own independent studio, and it seems like the best time to make some great games.
Now that they have no restrictions, PROPE could be the savior of SEGA



So....that's my two cents, what do YOU think?

king0512
01-03-2007, 23:51
Alright, I know SEGA is a shadow of its former self, but I think there is maybe hope for our beloved company. Here is a place for us to list the top things that you believe that SEGA can do to reclaim its holy throne.
1. Drop the Sonic games.
I love Sonic 20 times more than the other guy, but the rapidity and the quality of the Sonic games is becoming more and more inversely proportional. I'm not saying SEGA needs to lose Sonic and find another mascot, I'm simply saying SEGA needs to make fewer games, and make each on an event. Three games a year is too much.
2. Use their back-catalog. SEGA has a long history of classic games, and they're not taking advantage of any of it! They also have a HUGE number of Arcade games, many of which would be great for Next-Gen consoles like the Wii and PS3.
3. Make GOOD Games. Yakuza and SONIC were, to be honest, complete and total shit. SEGA is not incapable of making good games, they've made a few. They just don't know how to push back a game's release without cancelling it.
4. Release a new system. SEGA was almost on the way to redemption with the Dreamcast, and if they'd waited a few months, they'd have won. Next Generation, I'd be really excited to see a new SEGA system.
5. PROPE. Yuji Naka now has his own independent studio, and it seems like the best time to make some great games.
Now that they have no restrictions, PROPE could be the savior of SEGA
So....that's my two cents, what do YOU think?

The only part I might question is making a new console, mostly because I'm not sure if most people will really be willing to give sega another try. Those of us who grew up with sega may be willing to sega come back to the hardware area but I think too many of sega's former customers have already decided to move on to Nintendo, Sony (maybe not so much with Sony now), and Microsoft. I'm not so sure Sega would have the resources to do it and remain profitable (since that's what it boils down to) at this point in the game.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
01-03-2007, 23:55
Honestly, SEGA isn't profitable now anyway. They should just go out with a bang, and if they lose, become part of another company.

king0512
02-03-2007, 00:22
As for the Sonic part, what I think Sega should do is to take a hint from Blizzard and only release those games when they're done. After all this method hasn't failed Blizzard yet.

SegaMark
02-03-2007, 00:26
I'll be short and to the point.

Nothing, there's nothing they can ever do to go reclaim it's image. Sega died with the Dreamcast.

king0512
02-03-2007, 00:29
Well, all we can do is hope at this point. I agree that the age of good sega games may have indeed died with the Dreamcast, but you never know what will happen in the future .

BlueNocturne
02-03-2007, 00:39
Yakuza was shit? Maybe, but try plaing Ryu ga Gotoku if it was the voice acting that made you think it was "shit". Also, why do people continue to ignore their arcade efforts? Sega has always been on top of that scene. Meh.. there's too much bitterness here coming from people who probably like to gnore Sega's newer games or just judge without actually playing them.

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 00:45
1. Drop the Sonic games.
I love Sonic 20 times more than the other guy, but the rapidity and the quality of the Sonic games is becoming more and more inversely proportional. I'm not saying SEGA needs to lose Sonic and find another mascot, I'm simply saying SEGA needs to make fewer games, and make each on an event. Three games a year is too much.


I'll take them as often as they give them. I just want them to be quality games. From a public perspective though, it might be a good idea to reduce the rate. Just look at Mario... I think Nintendo slowed down shoving Mario into a game to avoid people from getting sick of him.

Now on the downside of Sonic... Will Sonic just fricken keep the emeralds so he doesn't spent every single game getting them. And maybe they can do something with the Dr. that doesn't involve him being pitted against Sonic...


2. Use their back-catalog. SEGA has a long history of classic games, and they're not taking advantage of any of it! They also have a HUGE number of Arcade games, many of which would be great for Next-Gen consoles like the Wii and PS3.


There are probably licensing issues we aren't aware of affecting some titles. For that matter, there are probably some Genesis/Mega Drive exclusive games that we think are by Sega, but they were really only the publisher.


3. Make GOOD Games. Yakuza and SONIC were, to be honest, complete and total shit. SEGA is not incapable of making good games, they've made a few. They just don't know how to push back a game's release without cancelling it.


Sonic 06' was good, they just needed about 6 more month of development to fix its issues. Whomever decided the game was ready for production must have been misinformed about the state of the game or something.

Just think about it, Sonic 2 would have been poorly received if they had stopped mid production. Sonic Riders feels that way due to its low quantity of levels. They shouldn't make up for a lack of game by just making the game harder...


4. Release a new system. SEGA was almost on the way to redemption with the Dreamcast, and if they'd waited a few months, they'd have won. Next Generation, I'd be really excited to see a new SEGA system.


Its not going to happen. There are only so many times you can put your hand on the hot stove top and burn your hand before you realize you aren't getting anywhere.


5. PROPE. Yuji Naka now has his own independent studio, and it seems like the best time to make some great games.
Now that they have no restrictions, PROPE could be the savior of SEGA

I think that's making some assumptions. It assumes Yuji Naka makes quality game concepts still and that working directly in Sega was hindering his creative concepts. For now I wouldn't hold any faith in PROPE until they prove themselves. Like any company, they still need to turn a profit. If they can't--it doesn't matter how good they are.

Clockwork edge
02-03-2007, 00:46
BlueNocturne you and your avartar have a good point.

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 00:48
I'll be short and to the point.

Nothing, there's nothing they can ever do to go reclaim it's image. Sega died with the Dreamcast.

That brings up a good point. What is meant by the term "reclaim its image". If it means being the same Sega we grew up and loved, it isn't coming back. Times have changed. If it means regaining the respect they once had as a game developer, I think that is much more possible. They just need to make the right decisions and investments.

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 00:50
Yakuza was shit? Maybe, but try plaing Ryu ga Gotoku if it was the voice acting that made you think it was "shit".

Speaking of voice acting... The lack of voice acting for most townsfolk in Sonic 06 was a bad decision. The brief "huh" type sound effects and goofy repeated body movements only add to ones frustration with the load screens...

Master hunter
02-03-2007, 01:15
SEGA can't reclaim their image, well not the one that made them a success originally. The were the slightly more mature yin to Nintendo's yang. They were the alternative in a two horse race.

The Sony came along and took that image and took it to its more logical next step. They made it more acceptable to mature audiences. Microsoft now has also tried to make this their focus.

What can SEGA do now? Appeal to more mature audiences? We're at that limit now. Offer an alternative? We have three options currently.

Nintendo are trying to reinvent gaming and appeal to a new audience, and it's working. So SEGA can't really do that.

All SEGA can really do is establish themselves as a quality 3rd party developer alongside the likes of Capcom and Konami. But this would be a new image, a image some would say they sort of already have now.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
02-03-2007, 01:44
Speaking of voice acting... The lack of voice acting for most townsfolk in Sonic 06 was a bad decision. The brief "huh" type sound effects and goofy repeated body movements only add to ones frustration with the load screens...


Yeah, I know. Did you notice that one lady in Sonic's Story has a voiceover? I think she's called, "Middle-Aged Woman."

She's in front of the fountain to the left of the entrance to Wave Ocean.

As for Blue's comment, Yakuza was just plain bad. The controls were bad, the fighting was flawed, the Shenmue-esque sections were nowhere near as good or entertaining as Shenmue, AND Mark Hamill delivers a line so profane, it's funny.

(I'd post it, but I might get fussed at by Mark.)

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 02:23
Yeah, I know. Did you notice that one lady in Sonic's Story has a voiceover? I think she's called, "Middle-Aged Woman."

She's in front of the fountain to the left of the entrance to Wave Ocean.

I think you are thinking of "Anna" as in "Protect Anna, She Knows the Secret!" mission 14 of Silver's missions (she was standing around talking in Sonic's game). She is the librarian looking (and sounding) lady that is like the Mayor's daughter or Elise's sister. It definitely is out of place that they gave her a voice actor, but I think they had bigger plans for her that just didn't make it in the game. The vast majority of the townsfolk had no real voices. Too bad. I would have loved to hear the voice for "Sonic Man" LOL

NiGHTS into Dreams...
02-03-2007, 02:39
Found her. Her name is "Lady-in-Waiting" and her line after Sonic's story is completed is, "Soleanna's lab is underneath the castle. But, after the Duke's death, it has been shut down and sealed away. If you can find one of the former researchers, they may be able to guide you."

She is directly in front of the fountain to the left of Wave Ocean, to the right of the entrance to Soleanna forest.

She may be the handmaiden that speaks to Elise in the cutscene, which would explain her voice-over.

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 03:00
She may be the handmaiden that speaks to Elise in the cutscene, which would explain her voice-over.

Dang nice find! I was struggling with that one. I couldn't even remember Anna's name for the answer I had. I just remembered her looking like a librarian. :)

NiGHTS into Dreams...
02-03-2007, 03:57
On a completely off-topic note, why won't they make a NiGHTS 2?


Does God hate me?

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 04:47
On a completely off-topic note, why won't they make a NiGHTS 2?


Does God hate me?

:mad: That sounds along the lines of a "If you love me you will..." statement.

And unless you have an inside scoop with Sega, the "Why won't they make <insert my favorite game sequel here>?" is going to be nothing more than a speculative topic. :(

NiGHTS into Dreams...
02-03-2007, 13:06
I know, but I'm desperate.....:(

I actually think they're making a sequel at PROPE and they're just keeping it secret. No other game would warrant a year of no announcements.

Mufasa
02-03-2007, 15:24
I actually think they're making a sequel at PROPE and they're just keeping it secret. No other game would warrant a year of no announcements.

I wouldn't agree with that. I think there are plenty of Sonic Team projects (including some we may have never heard of before that got scrapped) that could bloat big enough that its taking a long while and they are still not comfortable acknowledging its existence.

FPS_Leo
02-03-2007, 17:30
sonic team nearly finnished a proper sonic game for the saturn but scraped it because one of the leaders was becoming ill with over-working or something:blink:

SegaMark
02-03-2007, 19:07
sonic team nearly finnished a proper sonic game for the saturn but scraped it because one of the leaders was becoming ill with over-working or something:blink:

That would be Sega Technical Institute. not actually Sonic Team who were developing Sonic X-Treme.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
02-03-2007, 22:05
Yuji Naka killed Sonic X-Treme because they used the NiGHTS engine without his permission.

I just can't believe that Yuji Naka (and Sonic Team/PROPE) would finish a game like Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg, but they would pass on NiGHTS 2.

I refuse to believe that.

Felix
02-03-2007, 23:15
I think, all this time, the quality of their output is mostly a direct result to whole hardware company to solely publisher company transition. From being that great arcade company that made awesome fun games that were geared to a more adult audience than Nintendo to trying to be something mechanically artificial like EA, looking at the charts and just trying hopelessly to try to follow on what's "cool" and "in with da kids" they've lost themselves.

Give 'em time, and maybe- just maybe they get back on their feet. I'm not saying a return to the Sega of old- that's probably lost forever like Mark says but at least they must become SOMETHING that's decent. The new Wii Sonic game is supposed to be actually good, Nights for the Wii is rumoured and with Naka getting his own independent studio, we might finally see his true creative form flowing again.

And lets not forget F-Zero Wii. *drool* *wishful thinking*

I think it might be the Wii that really saves them actually.

thejoyrider
12-01-2008, 03:27
I don't think Sonic is a bad thing, but look at how Capcom is on top of the game. Every format fights to have their games on their system.

Lost Planet, Dead Rising, DMC 4, Bionic Commando, Resident Evil 5, Umbrella Chronicles, Street Fighter 4 are some of the sexy games of Capcom's range. Now what Sega needs to do is the same. Come up with some star spangled new ideas. Since the end of the X-Box / PS2 era, I've not really seen as much in your face releases from Sega.

Nectarine369
12-01-2008, 03:52
Nintendo takes pride in the products they put out, and have recognizable faces pushing them.

Sega doesn't seem to have any pride or a Shigeru. Some of the evidence supporting this view is in how often they throw Sonic games out and the graphical updates seen in each iteration.

1990ish
-------
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Super_Mario_World_gameplay.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d3/MD_Sonic_the_Hedgehog.png

Okay, cool, cool...

1996
-----
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/N64_Super_Mario_64_whomp_fortress.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Sonic_3d_saturn_diamond_dust_zone.jpg

LOL. Um, Sega? Wtf are you doing?

2007ish
-------
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Supermariogalaxydemo1.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Knuckles-sinbad.jpg

LOL. Wait, it isn't funny anymore... Sega, what are you doing?


A huge problem is Sega really doesn't seem to understand why Sonic games are good. They seemed to sorta finally kinda get it with the release of Secret Rings, but then their shoddy design was holding them back. Listen, Sega, you need to get a new friggin' team to work on Sonic games, a team that really likes Sonic and actually cares if he's completely and utterly destroyed.

Kronix
12-01-2008, 05:17
They need to make a new Virtual On game as well. Otherwise I agree ish. The new Sonic RPG sounds amazing!

ShoShoKid
12-01-2008, 10:26
LOL. Um, Sega? Wtf are you doing?
Comparing a isometric port of a Genesis game (that was a offshoot of the main series in the first place) to one of the first good 3D platformers isn't a fair comparison at all.

2007ish
-------

http://www.radiosega.net/images/posts/563562547.jpghttp://www.radiosega.net/images/posts/563562547.jpghttp://www.radiosega.net/images/posts/563562547.jpghttp://www.radiosega.net/images/posts/293611804.jpgLOL. Wait, it isn't funny anymore... Sega, what are you doing?
Lets be honest. Of course it isn't fair to compare a Wii game to a 360 game, but there is not a single other Wii game that looks 3 quarters as good as Mario Galaxy, Nintendo made or otherwise. So that is a unfair comparison in itself.


A huge problem is Sega really doesn't seem to understand why Sonic games are good. They seemed to sorta finally kinda get it with the release of Secret Rings, but then their shoddy design was holding them back. Listen, Sega, you need to get a new friggin' team to work on Sonic games, a team that really likes Sonic and actually cares if he's completely and utterly destroyed.

So yeah.

SuperMatt723
12-01-2008, 16:14
I think Sonic Team should take their time making Sonic games. Like fixing the camera, fixing the glitches and that stuff. As for SEGA in general, Some series are still good, like Virtual Tennis but the other series should keep to their roots.

7Force
12-01-2008, 22:48
I think Sonic Team should take their time making Sonic games. Like fixing the camera, fixing the glitches and that stuff. As for SEGA in general, Some series are still good, like Virtual Tennis but the other series should keep to their roots.

Sonic Next Gen, SEGA said that would go back to Sonic's roots...OH wait that was a lie.:ohmy:

Gavvie
12-01-2008, 23:02
Personally, I think SEGA already have a good image. It's not the dominant SEGA image that was around in the 90s, but it's respectable.

As a third party developer, they are a bit hit and miss. For every crap Sonic game, there's always going to be a Virtua Fighter 5. However, as a publisher, they do have some good games under their wing. Taking on the Total War franchise, and its developer, was a good bit of business by SEGA.

They're also taking on franchises and farming them out to developers who'd know how to make them. I would be afraid of a SEGA-developed Alien FPS, for all the wrong reasons. However, they gave it to Gearbox, who have a good history with FPS', and haven't really made any duffers.

I agree with what people have said, SEGA is never going to get their old image back. However, they are one step away from creating a new one, and that one step is to start making quality games 95% of the time.

How they do this is up to them, but I would focus on making each game the best I could make it, without having to dip into the back catalogue too much. Ecco on PS2 was pants, Altered Beast was rubbish, and Alien Syndrome was also a blast from the past that should have stayed there. As for Golden Axe...eh, Secret Level's last game wasn't all that stellar, so I reckon that's destined for the compost heap as well, but I'll keep my mind open till it's out.

Let's not forget the good games though. Sonic still has good games coming out, like the Rush duo on DS, Secret Rings, and Sonic Chronicles looks pretty swish. Mario & Sonic reviewed well, as did NiGHTS 2, and as a publisher they've also hit the right notes with Condemned, and are bound to do the same with Condemned 2. And there's Viking: Battle of Asgard, which looks awesome.

In closing: SEGA are on the brink of a new era, but they still need to improve a little bit before they get there.

Nectarine369
13-01-2008, 13:14
Lets be honest. Of course it isn't fair to compare a Wii game to a 360 game, but there is not a single other Wii game that looks 3 quarters as good as Mario Galaxy, Nintendo made or otherwise. So that is a unfair comparison in itself.

I don't think so. The point of comparing the Wii Mario game to the Wii Sonic game is that Sega COULD have made Sonic look that good, but they didn't. Obviously games can all look as good as Mario Galaxy, but time and effort isn't put into them to make sure they do, the fact that they're on the same system is what makes it completely and utterly a fair comparison.

What is really mind-blowing is the fact that Mario Galaxy is arguably a better looking game than Sonic on the 360, which (arguably, mind you) proves my point that Sonic games are just really badly designed all around. Observe:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/309/929717_20061106_screen003.jpg
Poorly conceived shadowing (on characters and otherwise)

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/309/929717_20061106_screen006.jpg
Ah, the classic "I'm a freakin' Fox and the comic books give me more fur than these games". How many times have you seen a fox with MATTE, POLYGONAL FUR? This isn't Tail's character design (and if it is it's horrible and they're all drunk) It's a next-gen system, give us some awesome 2D fur sprites a-la

[ IMAGE REMOVED DUE TO CONFIRMED HOT LINKING ]


http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/309/929717_20061106_screen009.jpg

Animations with such extreme clipping are inexcusable and due to extreme laziness or poor game testers.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/302/929717_20061030_screen002.jpg

Sega probably doesn't know what the most basic functions of simple bump mapping are, or else they wouldn't be creating flat faces and applying crappy and ill-lined textures to them.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/302/929717_20061030_screen011.jpg

And my conclusion: Sonic games these days pretty much look exactly the same as Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, but prettied up a bit for new systems. The same low-poly, low-res texturing, lazy design etc.
BUT HEY. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

Then again, it's right.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/303/915692_20071030_screen068.jpg
WOAH WOAH WOAH, what? If it weren't for the 480I/P output that might actually look as good as a 360 game, nay it already is better than Sonic The Hedgehog! Sigh Sonic, still crappy camera angles even though people have told you so since 2001, and a bajillion "fall through the earth lol" glitches.

Kronix
13-01-2008, 16:01
Though even that Mario Galaxy picture is a poor representation of what it really looks like.

I had a 26" LCD tv with 480P it looked near as smooth as silk. Not anywhere near as jaggy as that picture makes it out to be.

Though I hear once you get past 32" they start to look crappy or something like that? Which doesn't really bother me because I never planned on going higher then that.

SonicEpsilon
13-01-2008, 16:15
SEGA needs to do more, right now in my opinion they're being Nintendo's bitch. As for Sonic games, they've wasted it with the amount of extra characters (especially Big the Cat, Cream & those Chao) as well as poor games such as Sonic 06, the models were horrible along with long loading times. Right now they need to return back to the basics, use the original characters (1991-1994) which consist of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman & Metal Sonic, with badniks & Eggman being the main enemy, the last few games he hasn't, always a monster or Eggman Nega.
Sega seriously need to shape up, otherwise it'll be game over for Yuji Naka & his cronies.

32x
13-01-2008, 16:29
Sega seriously need to shape up, otherwise it'll be game over for Yuji Naka & his cronies.
Naka doesn't work for SEGA or Sonic Team anymore. He's went off with his own game team.
In news released on March 16, 2006, Naka announced that he intended to create his own game studio, independent of Sega and Sega Studio USA (a.k.a. Sonic Team USA). This decision bears resemblance to Naoto Oshima's departure of Sonic Team in 1999, when he founded Artoon.SEGA lost it when the teams left. Simple as that. When the original creator of something leaves, everything goes to pot and never recovers.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuji_Naka)
Prope (http://prope.jp/)

SharkySN
15-01-2008, 19:49
Sega should simply disband Sonic Team or crack the fucking whip a bit more... I still enjoy Sega games and Sega published games. The company is still great and they still make many awesome titles... But Sonic and his shitty friends drag down the image.

For every 5 awesome games there is a Sonic game that sucks and since Sonic is Sega's mascot it keeps their image low.

It's that simple.. Sonic Team is the problem.

Mufasa
15-01-2008, 20:06
But Sonic and his shitty friends drag down the image.
It's that simple.. Sonic Team is the problem.

Wow, thats the first I've heard on that perspective. Haven't heard of anyone who thought Sega should drop Sonic and Sonic Team. There's definitely some logic to it... Sega dropped out of the hardware business after countless attempts to make it work. Maybe the same should be for Sonic Team and Sonic.

In my opinion, Sega isn't the same without their own hardware and would be even less so without Sonic. And I think I pick up the whole "and his shitty friends" bit pretty well though. Sega seems to think they need to constantly add more characters and tweak the Sonic series. Sometimes you wonder... How do you let someone know that they are trying to improve on "perfection" and are making it worse?

It all reminds me of Capcom's Mega Man series. I totally lost interest in the series after they decided to go all Mega Man X. I also had the same worries when Sonic X came out, however, it looks like the changes they made for that series have stayed in that series with the exception of the mass impact on official Sonic clothing (that so pisses me off).

32x
15-01-2008, 20:22
Sonic Team isn't the problem, neither is Sonic. Sonic is what keeps SEGA in. If it wasn't for Sonic we would be stuck with Alex Kidd for a mascot. -_- The problem is the PR, no *** is listening to what the fans want. Until they start listening they wont beat the older ones. The Sonic games peaked at Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 and sold the Dreamcast on release. They need to redesign Sonic games and release them. They are doing very well for themselves though. I still buy their games. SEGA Rally, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Tennis, Football Manager, SEGA GT (waiting on a new release). The true fans will wait out this storm instead of insisting that it's going to collapse. Personally I'm waiting for them to pull something out of their sleeves, until then I'm more than happen to keep the banner flying. SEGA never died when they lost in hardware and like hell will they fall now!

Mufasa
15-01-2008, 20:39
If it wasn't for Sonic we would be stuck with Alex Kidd for a mascot. -_-

This brings up another thought too. If Sega could develop a new character to replace Sonic as their mascot (that is just as appealing if not more so), how would Sonic fans take this?

And of course I'm certain people will think that Sega can't develop such a mascot. This is the same logic I think may have gone on before Sonic was created when Nintendo's Mario was the biggest character to compete with.

And of course dropping Sonic begs the question... So without Sonic, what does Sega have to fall back on? Several good franchises, but none with as identifiable a character as Sonic. Are the other franchises not as strong due to a lack of advertising? Or perhaps is it because of the target audiences?

On the topic of target audiences, this may also be part of Sega's problem. Sonic has probably the largest target audience of all. Unfortunately, it seems Sega isn't focusing on the segment of that audience that has the buying power and previous history with Sonic games. Without Sonic, many of their other franchises are targeted to a smaller more select audience...

Which I think is Sony's biggest problem at the moment. If you were to ask anybody, they may have a very difficult time answering the question, "What is Sony's mascot?". Is it Spyro? Is it Crash Bandicoot? Jak/Daxter? Ratchet & Clank? These characters may have a select following for them, but none take the lead and launch system sales like Mario and Sonic have in the past. Sony's attention is so split up, nothing ever seems strong. -_-

32x
15-01-2008, 20:50
This brings up another thought too. If Sega could develop a new character to replace Sonic as their mascot (that is just as appealing if not more so), how would Sonic fans take this?
ATTACK! ATTACK! *ahem* Erm. Well as a Sonic fan, I could only say I would revolt against SEGA, the very idea of no Sonic is out of the question, cannot be done. I grew up on him. My childhood memories are of playing the games.
So without Sonic, what does Sega have to fall back on?
Akira comes to mind. Always thought of the Virtua series of games as a strong series that SEGA should seriously work on more. How would you like a new Virtua Racing? Or Virtua Cop? Or what about a Virtua package of all the original Virtua games packed into one, 100% exact?

"What is Sony's mascot?"
It was Crash at one point, but who knows what Sony want as a mascot. Microsoft don't have one either, they used to have that cat, but have none at the moment. I don't take either seriously. No mascot no respect. Can't expect to get ahead in this business without an identity card.

Mufasa
15-01-2008, 21:03
So without Sonic, what does Sega have to fall back on?

Akira comes to mind. Always thought of the Virtua series of games as a strong series that SEGA should seriously work on more. How would you like a new Virtua Racing? Or Virtua Cop? Or what about a Virtua package of all the original Virtua games packed into one, 100% exact?

Akira is not strong enough. This character would have to be a Sega character considered to be "living in Sonic's shadow". I don't believe Sega has such a character. They'll have to make one. For me, I'd fall back on Alex Kidd and Wonderboy, but that doesn't cut it for most of the Sonic audience.

Microsoft don't have one either, they used to have that cat, but have none at the moment. I don't take either seriously. No mascot no respect. Can't expect to get ahead in this business without an identity card.

I would have to consider "Master Chief" of the Halo series, to be Microsoft's "mascot". And a Microsoft cat? Oh yeah. I don't think Blinx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinx) was ever intended to be a mascot--just another franchise. Either way, the Halo series is Microsoft's identity card. For myself, Halo doesn't cut it--however, I see Microsoft leading the way in online content. If it weren't for that, I'd probably feel about equally as bad about all the consoles out today. Microsoft doesn't have my personal emotions towards character(s) of theirs, however, their online strategy and lead has enough appeal to keep me in the game. -_-

32x
15-01-2008, 21:15
Microsoft doesn't have my personal emotions towards character(s) of theirs, however, their online strategy and lead has enough appeal to keep me in the game. -_-
I'll be honest here. I have an XBOX 360 sat at the side of my TV stand and a Dreamcast on a shelf above the TV. I don't play the 360 nearly as much as I do the Dreamcast. This is why. Microsoft may have the edge with online gaming, but SEGA release something that is "new" to both Microsoft and Sony, a word called "quality". SEGA have been producing it since the Master System, and is seeing a new birth in it since SEGA Rally, Virtua Fighter 5 and Virtua Tennis 3. The latest systems to me, cannot possibly match the might of a Dreamcast, no chance. SEGA has a good image they just need to come to the conclusion that the Dreamcast can still make a profit if they put money into it. The SEGA image has only fallen due to lack of balls and trying to keep up with "trends". Thank you Sony, rat ***. Anyhow, more to the point. Virtua Fighter is a big game for SEGA and I personally feel, since it's part of the Virtua series, if SEGA brought them all back, it could stand as SEGA's image.

SuperMatt723
15-01-2008, 23:59
I asked my friend this question and he said, "they need to sell Sonic To Nintendo. They'll fix him up." I got so upset because SEGA and Sonic Team can make good Sonic games. We have seen this.

SharkySN
16-01-2008, 00:16
Sonic Team isn't the problem, neither is Sonic. Sonic is what keeps SEGA in. If it wasn't for Sonic we would be stuck with Alex Kidd for a mascot. -_- The problem is the PR, no *** is listening to what the fans want. Until they start listening they wont beat the older ones. The Sonic games peaked at Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 and sold the Dreamcast on release. They need to redesign Sonic games and release them. They are doing very well for themselves though. I still buy their games. SEGA Rally, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Tennis, Football Manager, SEGA GT (waiting on a new release). The true fans will wait out this storm instead of insisting that it's going to collapse. Personally I'm waiting for them to pull something out of their sleeves, until then I'm more than happen to keep the banner flying. SEGA never died when they lost in hardware and like hell will they fall now!

The question on this thread is "What does SEGA need to do to reclaim its image?" Well dumping Sonic Team is the answer weather you like it or not.

Many gamers and avg people see Sonic as Sega. They over look everything else and judge the hole company on Sonic and Sonic Teams efforts. I'm sure we can agree on that much.

Well, right now Sonic games are the throne in Segas side, the games have been craptastic for years and Sonic Team rarely make anything worth playing. People see this and automatically judge the hole of Sega on this.

I say dump Sonic games and break up Sonic Team, filter the good developers into other teams and sack the slackers... That is the best way to fix Segas image.

I'd rather never see another Sonic game again then see one more shitty Sonic spin off or glitchy bad game like Sonic 06. I'm tired of Sonic and Sonic Team bringing down the image of the best video game company.

SuperMatt723
16-01-2008, 00:32
Ok I understand ridding of Sonic Team, even though I think they are gods, but they really don't need to get rid of Sonic totally. I think it actually would be good if Nintendo owned Sonic. They would bring back Sonic to his roots. (like the Genesis or Dreamcast days.) SEGA really doesn't have to rid of Sonic...........

completely.

32x
16-01-2008, 09:05
... I'd rather never see another Sonic game again then see one more shitty Sonic spin off or glitchy bad game like Sonic 06. I'm tired of Sonic and Sonic Team bringing down the image of the best video game company.
And you call yourself a fan right? If they ditch Sonic they loose millions which can slowly kill them. And I know what the topic is about. SEGA have a good image as is as a 3rd party developer. They are trying. The other game departments are doing well, the only struggling one is Sonic Team which are actually doing good (NiGHTS). And they hold the best in the range of football management games in the form of Football Manager. Instead of trashing something just because your unhappy, how about helping them by sending them your views? Just a thought.

Gavvie
16-01-2008, 18:30
Mm, getting rid of Sonic isn't solving the problem, it's just contributing to it. That said, SEGA should stem the flow of Sonic games a little and concentrate on making consistently good ones, rather than just throwing out any old shite.

Mufasa
16-01-2008, 18:37
And you call yourself a fan right?

I don't think I recall him ever labeling himself "a fan". That kind of talk is close to the whole... "Well if you were really my friend, you would..." type logic. I don't see anything wrong with someone liking what Sega has done, but disagreeing with some aspects. It doesn't make them any less of a fan. 32x, sometimes I wonder why you are so fixed on terms. I find very little value in labels like "fan" and "gamer" as too many people twist them to their own meaning and if you fail short of that meaning, they go out of their way to prove you don't deserve the term. Just silly. :wacko:

If they ditch Sonic they loose millions which can slowly kill them.

I only partially agree with this statement. Ditching Sonic without something else just about as strong to fall back on would probably hurt Sega immensely. I mean, if a television station produces the final season of your favorite TV show is it the end for them? No, they just thought it was time to move on. Being tied to one creative work for too long can also make you seem like a one trick pony to those not looking beyond your star attraction. Moving on past Sonic, as much as it would hurt, would also help allow Sega's other franchises see more of the spotlight and give a more rounded and positive feel towards the company's image.

The other game departments are doing well, the only struggling one is Sonic Team which are actually doing good (NiGHTS).

NiGHTS, Sonic & The Secret Rings and some of the more recent Sonic DS titles have indeed helped improve Sonic Team's image, but they still fail to fix the perception that Sonic Team is struggling to make a good Sonic game. Sonic Team is still trying to live down the negative reception Sonic 2006 got. It was supposed to be the next major game in the main series and it disappointed many. I think being left hanging for a "main series" game is the only real problem.

Now the question is... Can Sonic Team produce this "main series" game to fix the damage done by Sonic 2006? If not, should Sega drop Sonic game production? In gambling terms, it very well may be quitting while you are ahead. Another bad "main series" Sonic game could do just as much damage if not more so than just cutting back/dropping Sonic. -_-

Instead of trashing something just because your unhappy, how about helping them by sending them your views? Just a thought.

Indeed, Sharky's tone using works like "Sonic and his shitty friends drag down the image" is enough to consider trashing Sonic. While this isn't exactly a positive way to express how Sonic is actually hurting Sega's image, it still gets the point across. And I'm not sure you already know Sharky has or has not expressed his views to Sega. In either case, it shouldn't have any impact on his desires to express himself here. 32x, you just need to be a little less defensive and start listening to the message he has. It may have been expressed crudely, but nonetheless its a topic nobody has really brought up here on the RadioSEGA forums as a way for Sega to reclaim its image. -_-

Tails_1986
16-01-2008, 19:46
They need to stop rushing games and start thinking. If something isn't working (like camera angles) take your time to correct it. I speak for myself, but I would prefer a good Sonic game every year and half, or even every two years, than a couple of average games each year.

32x
16-01-2008, 20:13
Mufasa: Agree with you but I had just woken up and I'm very defensive of both Sonic and SEGA. I grew up with them, I love them like family. Weird maybe but when everything collapsed around me it made me smile. I wont make an excuse though if you think I was out of line. But the whole issue of removing Sonic doesn't seem like it can be done. It would be like Nintendo stopping production of all Mario titles and removing him from their games. Sonic has been with us since 1991. I think the problem lies with the kids who are now making them. Hot-shot coders fresh out of university. I doubt the original team are still on it. I know Yuji isn't which is a huge loss to the title.

Mufasa
16-01-2008, 20:31
They need to stop rushing games and start thinking.

This also brings up another good topic on Sega's game development. Their games are not as profitable as they once were. The longer you take to develop a game, the more you are paying to all your staff, the more the game costs for you to develop. If you are spending more on development than you are getting back in profit, you'll be out of business in no time. -_-

By the same topic, if you spend too little time or staff with too few developers, there are likely to be issues. In the case of Sonic 2006, I think it was staffing as revealed by the Yojiro Ogawa interview (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_%282006_game%29#Reception). If Sega would have doubled the staff (earlier than the last minute) to form a separate PS3 and XBOX 360 team, the game would have come out much better. Hopefully developers aren't put into any sort of crunch like that on the next major Sonic game. As a software developer myself, I find I produce my best work when I have very loose/no deadlines.

Mufasa: Agree with you but I had just woken up and I'm very defensive of both Sonic and SEGA. I grew up with them, I love them like family.

No problem. Its hard for many people to put their emotions aside and think of things objectively.

I wont make an excuse though if you think I was out of line.

You were, but thats why I went through the extended effort to show this. Normally I'd just shrug this off and say nothing, but being whom you are... I just had to.

But the whole issue of removing Sonic doesn't seem like it can be done. It would be like Nintendo stopping production of all Mario titles and removing him from their games.

I agree with you. I don't think Sega could just drop Sonic. He is way too valued. Now on the other hand, circumstances could change. Sonic was that circumstances for Alex Kidd and he's seen even less attention that Sega's other non-mascot franchises. Indeed, if Sega drops Sonic, it will feel like Sega dropping the other half of the hardware/software pair we all grew with and loved. Personally the only way I could ever see that happening is bankruptcy. Someone would surely buy them before Sega ever got into that situation. -_-

Gavvie
16-01-2008, 22:54
You mentioned earlier Wonder Boy. I think that, if done correctly, SEGA would have a hit on their hands. It would get comparisons to Zelda, I'm sure, but then SEGA's world is a lot more mythical than Nintendo's, what with having dragons and..erm..large mushrooms, but hey, I'll take it.

So let's all start a petition: Wonder Boy for Next Gen :D

Mufasa
16-01-2008, 23:18
So let's all start a petition: Wonder Boy for Next Gen :D

Yes indeed. I want a new Wonder Boy as well. Wonder Boy was what first had me falling in love with Sega. Sonic just made that love all the more deeper. ;)

Of course, we are still falling into the whole "remaking an old franchise" hole with that topic which may not make Wonder Boy go over as well as it should. I mean, can you imagine Wonder Boy in 3-D? Nothing says they can't make a 2-D game, but the way things go nowadays, original 2-D titles are few and far between. People might not give the game a fair chance just because of how people have perceived other Sega titles getting the 3D treatment (Sonic, Golden Axe, Shining Force, etc.). :unsure:

Sad that a company's existing image can also impair itself in improving that image. Some people just aren't willing to give things a fair chance. :(

7Force
16-01-2008, 23:26
So let's all start a petition: Wonder Boy for Next Gen :D

Nah man a new Alex Kidd game.:)

ShoShoKid
16-01-2008, 23:57
I don't think so. The point of comparing the Wii Mario game to the Wii Sonic game is that Sega COULD have made Sonic look that good, but they didn't. Obviously games can all look as good as Mario Galaxy, but time and effort isn't put into them to make sure they do, the fact that they're on the same system is what makes it completely and utterly a fair comparison.

Sure they could have, it still doesn't take away that it is a pretty good looking game. Upon release it was one of the better looking games on the system, and still is.

What is really mind-blowing is the fact that Mario Galaxy is arguably a better looking game than Sonic on the 360, which (arguably, mind you) proves my point that Sonic games are just really badly designed all around. Observe:

I'd agree with this, I personally do feel it is better looking actually.

WOAH WOAH WOAH, what? If it weren't for the 480I/P output that might actually look as good as a 360 game, nay it already is better than Sonic The Hedgehog! Sigh Sonic, still crappy camera angles even though people have told you so since 2001, and a bajillion "fall through the earth lol" glitches.

It isn't as if Mario on 64 had a great camera, and I know for sure that Galaxy's can be crap as well.

TF73
20-01-2008, 01:22
For Sega to reclaim it's image they have to go back to their roots.
They have to once again be innovative and make way for new thinking and taking chances in the way to make games.
Sega used to be hardcore, but sadly they are a bit on the casual side these days. It's all about making money. But if things doesn't change I think they will loose a lot of their hardcore fan base.

On a positive note I think games like Sega Rally, NiGHTS and Ghost Squad shows that they can if they want to! And looking at some of their upcoming games I think they are on the right track.

The crap titles that Sega have released in the recent years seems to be cash in products. Golden Compass anyone??

I don't think Sega will forget their roots and I believe and think they aim to return to their roots!
Love you Sega and hope you love me.:wub:

massive-dannage
27-01-2008, 15:14
I've got to say though, Journey Of Dreams wasn't all that bad like there where two low points: bad controls and sometimes on the platform levels it slows down.:decide:

PuzzleNoise!
27-01-2008, 16:50
I've got to say though, Journey Of Dreams wasn't all that bad like there where two low points: bad controls and sometimes on the platform levels it slows down.:decide:

I don't think that the controls are bad. I didn't even have to get used to it, I think it was rather easy to control. These platform levels werent so bad, why is everyone complaining about them? XD

The only annoying thing in NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams for me was, that the framerate was really low at some Cutscenes.

7Force
27-01-2008, 23:24
I think SEGA should do more stuff for the Nintendo platforms. Since I heard the DS and Wii are very easy to program for and cheap to make games for then I think SEGA can spend a few quid making original games with that SEGA touch.

Gavvie
28-01-2008, 17:15
By the looks of things, they are. There aren't many SEGA developed games coming out on the 360/PS3/PSP compared to what's coming out on the Wii/DS.