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sega fan
04-02-2007, 02:24
I buyed my dremcast a few years ago what I cant understand is why it went down so fast in 3 years now sony playstation2 is taking a back seat to ps3 and it is not working for sony this is why I think in a few years sega will come out with a new system for next generration.

SegaMark
04-02-2007, 10:33
SEGA were simply too strapped for cash and had no resources to support the Dreamcast anymore, lack of support from EA was also a factor, didn't help that the PS2 was so hyped and that SEGA didn't include a DVD player in the DC.

FPS_Leo
04-02-2007, 10:39
sega couldn't or it would be really difficult for them to make another console because of their ties with other console manufacturers:(

AirRaven
04-02-2007, 17:32
Dreamcast deserved to die.

PS2 ftw, tbfh.

[/blatant baiting]

sega fan
04-02-2007, 17:34
No it did not.

SegaMark
04-02-2007, 17:50
He was being sarcastic... Jeez.

ResidentSD
04-02-2007, 19:20
Like Mark said, lack of support and the fact that the PlayStation was such a popular console.

Even though the PlayStation 2 was and still is up there with the worst consoles ever created, the PlayStation-factor meant that the Dreamcast never had a chance. Shame, because the PS2 had nothing on the Dreamcast (in the end, the power of the PS2 would have come good, but it was such a bitch to code for that the Dreamcast was better in pretty much every way at the time).

rossi46
05-02-2007, 00:19
The Dreamcast was stillborn when the PS1 killed the Saturn. By then, Playstation was the buzzword for 'coolness' that changed the perception of gaming from the pastime of spotty nerds who had no social skills into something that was cool and trendy to do. People had too many bad memories of the Mega CD and 32X to take another chance on a Sega console. Sony was cool Sega and Nintendo were not. I know tons of people who's first gaming experience was on Playstation. Ultimately, Sony turned curious and casual gamers into true fans and killed any chances of other consoles stone-dead in the water.

FPS_Leo
05-02-2007, 14:07
my first gaming memory was playing on a PC my dad brought home from college:wub: it had some FPS game on it called "commando" or something and a platformer called "aladin"^_^

Seby
05-02-2007, 18:07
For me,a Sega Fan since 1992 it wasnst a question to get an Dc..It was a duty :)

Le SHARK
05-02-2007, 18:42
The DC was, sorry, Still is a stunning machine, for those of us that still have one mint with a load of games then we are the lucky ones, stunning machine. :P

rossi46
05-02-2007, 22:33
I have a DC and an almost complete PAL collection, plus a few 'other' titles. Both my Saturn and DC see much more active service than the 360 I got in Novenber. I've only bought 5 games for the 360 in that time.

SegaMark
05-02-2007, 22:48
SegaMark edit: Topic title changed, the last title was retarded.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
05-02-2007, 23:00
For me,a Sega Fan since 1992 it wasnst a question to get an Dc..It was a duty :)

Yeah, same here. I didn't get my modem hooked up until a year ago, only to find out PSO was disconnected....:(

AirRaven
05-02-2007, 23:28
Yeah, same here. I didn't get my modem hooked up until a year ago, only to find out PSO was disconnected....:(
http://onlineconsoles.com/

The PAL PSO is still going strong, you'll be pleased to hear.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
05-02-2007, 23:33
http://onlineconsoles.com/

The PAL PSO is still going strong, you'll be pleased to hear.

.........I should be, but oddly, I'm not.

If SEGA intends to reclaim its status as a respected game company, shouldn't they make certain things region-free?


However, I am glad that SOMEONE gets to play PSO online. As for us Americans....there's always PSU...don't feel like paying 9 dollars a month when I'm already paying 50 a year.

SegaMark
05-02-2007, 23:38
I think the PSO servers are actually going to die soon, I read that somewhere.

Well I know lots of Americans imported PSO for DC so they could still play on the Euro servers.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
05-02-2007, 23:42
Yeah, I think the JP servers are up now too, so if anyone had a copy of PSO from Japan, they could probably access that as well.

SegaMark
05-02-2007, 23:44
Infact actually, if I recall correctly the Euro and Japan servers were linked, you could play on either depending on which ship you picked.

AirRaven
07-02-2007, 17:57
Phantasy Star Online for Dreamcast and Gamecube is being taken offline at the end of March.

Say bye bye.

Seby
07-02-2007, 18:32
but u can still play it on schthack then

Clockwork edge
07-02-2007, 18:48
^Yup and theres always PSO: blue burst for the PC.

NiGHTS into Dreams...
14-02-2007, 01:24
but u can still play it on schthack then

I don't have a CodeBreaker

^Yup and theres always PSO: blue burst for the PC.


My computer can't handle it.

Too bad about the EU Servers....:(

Seby
14-02-2007, 18:59
You can download codebreaker...http://www.dcarena.de/dload.php?action=file&file_id=19

:biggrin:

ShoShoKid
01-09-2007, 11:52
Number of issues:

Bernie Stolar leaving
Piracy
Advertising commonly left in-game footage out
Advertising budget for SOA blown in the first 3 months
SEGA's previous losses
PS2's DVD player

these are the main reasons, lack of EA support didn't hurt as much as people act like it did in my opinion.

Jacobean
01-09-2007, 13:28
Sega was way ahead of its time with all of its inventions. Game gear presented the first colour screen on a handheld, Saturn produced the first ever 3-D game tomb raider, but unfortunatley back a decade or so consoles were seen as child play things and any adult involved in it was considered a geek.
That was until the playstation came in and revitalised the world of gaming by making it a more universal thing rather than for the techies, something everyone can enjoy. unfortunately to say, we have Sony to thank for bringing gaming into the mainstream and saturn simply got lost in the playstation fad. By the time dreamcast came, playstation had already instated itself as the "everybody console" and sega could not cope with the losses. Thus building a console will not happen soon, if not ever.
That and they spent the second largest amount of money on a game with Shenmue, which turned out to break their losses every dreamcast owner in the world would have to buy 2 copies of the game.

Still i like to remember the good days of Soul Calibur, sega rally, and other amazing games

ShoShoKid
02-09-2007, 01:16
Sega was way ahead of its time with all of its inventions. Game gear presented the first colour screen on a handheld, Saturn produced the first ever 3-D game tomb raider, but unfortunatley back a decade or so consoles were seen as child play things and any adult involved in it was considered a geek.
That was until the playstation came in and revitalised the world of gaming by making it a more universal thing rather than for the techies, something everyone can enjoy. unfortunately to say, we have Sony to thank for bringing gaming into the mainstream and saturn simply got lost in the playstation fad. By the time dreamcast came, playstation had already instated itself as the "everybody console" and sega could not cope with the losses. Thus building a console will not happen soon, if not ever.
That and they spent the second largest amount of money on a game with Shenmue, which turned out to break their losses every dreamcast owner in the world would have to buy 2 copies of the game.

Still i like to remember the good days of Soul Calibur, sega rally, and other amazing games


Not to be rude, but:

1. Atari Lynx was the first color handheld
2. Tomb Raider was not the first 3D game. There were games on the Saturn itself before it that were 3D, on the 3DO, the 32X, and PC. There were even a few games on Genesis such as Star cruiser that used very basic 3D graphics.

RaikuNaomi
02-09-2007, 06:53
The thing about innovation was, for example with Game Gear, was that in alot of ways it wasen't well thought out, Game Gear had like 3 hours or less of battery life off of 6 AA Batterys... Which is sad, and for how big Gameboy 'Fat Gameboy' was Game Gear was alot bigger... Though I love my Game Gear...

Another reason i fealt that it failed was Sega kinda droped the coolness factor of its marketing Durring and After Saturn in the US (Segata!!!!), Sony (and later M$) could spend more on marketing than Sega had all together after the whole Saturn/Sega Cd/32X thing (though i think Sega CD did fine)

And with the 3d lets not forget 3d in the Arcades (the first one being a Game made by Atari in the Early 80's!!) Among others Virtua Racing and Hard Drivin'. Also there was the psudo 3d games on SMS (but those arnt polygon based so they dont count, but i feal its worth mentoning)

As far as EA goes, generally Sega's sports games were as highly regarded (if not more so) as EA's and were huge System Sellers on Dreamcast (more than Shenmue :()

ShoShoKid
02-09-2007, 07:13
The thing about innovation was, for example with Game Gear, was that in alot of ways it wasen't well thought out, Game Gear had like 3 hours or less of battery life off of 6 AA Batterys... Which is sad, and for how big Gameboy 'Fat Gameboy' was Game Gear was alot bigger... Though I love my Game Gear...

Another reason i fealt that it failed was Sega kinda droped the coolness factor of its marketing Durring and After Saturn in the US (Segata!!!!), Sony (and later M$) could spend more on marketing than Sega had all together after the whole Saturn/Sega Cd/32X thing (though i think Sega CD did fine)

And with the 3d lets not forget 3d in the Arcades (the first one being a Game made by Atari in the Early 80's!!) Among others Virtua Racing and Hard Drivin'. Also there was the psudo 3d games on SMS (but those arnt polygon based so they dont count, but i feal its worth mentoning)

As far as EA goes, generally Sega's sports games were as highly regarded (if not more so) as EA's and were huge System Sellers on Dreamcast (more than Shenmue :()

You are from Oregon too! Sweet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIMEfxYh3lc&mode=related&search=

I don't know how to post that video but if somebody could that would be greatly appreciated. I actually found this game at a Goodwill in Florence Oregon of all places. Quite a interesting find and it was in mint condition.

RaikuNaomi
02-09-2007, 07:25
Thats a crazy find in Florence, (i lived in Coos Bay before, been to Florence 100s of times) is it in english or just japanese.

Speaking of 3d on Genesis, i have a great condition copy of Virtua Racing for Genesis and also the Deluxe one for 32X, though i want a copy of the Saturn one.

ShoShoKid
02-09-2007, 08:18
Thats a crazy find in Florence, (i lived in Coos Bay before, been to Florence 100s of times) is it in english or just japanese.

Speaking of 3d on Genesis, i have a great condition copy of Virtua Racing, though i want a copy of the Saturn one.


Japanese unfortunately for most, but I have been taking Japanese for 2 years of high school now so I am beginning to understand some of it. This game didn't have a extra chip in it like Virtua Racing did. It was a really insane find in Florence, especially considering I have never even seen it on eBay (though I have not checked in years).

I picked it up and questioned who in Florence knew how to import games back then, and for Mega Drive too.... I found 2 32X games too, Shadow Squadron I believe and Blackthorne. I bought all for a dollar a piece complete with their manuals and cases.

Le SHARK
02-09-2007, 15:23
Still say the DC is one of the best consoles ever, think the 360 has a great DC feel to it also.

RaikuNaomi
02-09-2007, 18:27
Still say the DC is one of the best consoles ever, think the 360 has a great DC feel to it also.

You know I said the same thing about Xbox... it must of been the controller (and Shenmue II), I think Wii is more like Dreamcast (wishful thinking), Innovation thats what the Old Sega (not the sad, pathetic Sega of now) was all about, I would like to see Sega do some great games anywhere... but I some how doubt it.

SegaMark
02-09-2007, 18:28
Still say the DC is one of the best consoles ever, think the 360 has a great DC feel to it also.

I'd say it doesn't, as there's hardly any decent arcade games on the 360, it's a pretty boring console, like the Wii and PS3.

RaikuNaomi
02-09-2007, 18:37
Well if your looking for arcade games, outside of old console ports, and the occasional Xbox Live Arcade game, scence Sega is gone now, there realy is not any home for those kind of games.

Le SHARK
02-09-2007, 21:02
I'd say it doesn't, as there's hardly any decent arcade games on the 360, it's a pretty boring console, like the Wii and PS3.

Tell you what Mark, its nice haveing Golden Axe, sonic etc on live arcade though isnt it?

A friend and i are both big DC fans and i think the reason the 360 feels very DC is down to live and the leader boards IMHO.

Dont forget the DC was really the first console to give us console gamers the online thing, loved the days of Shenmue and posting my hi scores for Hang On etc.

Brilliant Times. :wub:

SegaMark
02-09-2007, 22:04
True, but I own those games for the Mega Drive. ;) That's the thing, since the Dreamcast died, for me it seems arcade ports never appear as much, which is a damn shame.

ShoShoKid
02-09-2007, 22:37
The 360 is the least boring of the new consoles, and it does have slight feel to it that reminds me of the Dreamcast, it has a few arcade titles, G. Rev ported Senko No Ronde. Bioshock is kind of like Deep Fear for Saturn? PSU (PSO), Eternal Sonata (Napple Tale)...

RaikuNaomi
02-09-2007, 23:17
The 360 is the least boring of the new consoles, and it does have slight feel to it that reminds me of the Dreamcast, it has a few arcade titles, G. Rev ported Senko No Ronde. Bioshock is kind of like Deep Fear for Saturn? PSU (PSO), Eternal Sonata (Napple Tale)...

The reson why it has games like that is because its been around longer than PS3 and Wii, time will show that PS3 and Wii will have games comparable to those im sure.

ShoShoKid
03-09-2007, 02:00
The reson why it has games like that is because its been around longer than PS3 and Wii, time will show that PS3 and Wii will have games comparable to those im sure.

A lot of people try to say that the 360 was just as bad as the PS3 and Wii are in the same time frame, but I fell that this is incorrect. It had:

Oblivion (possibly the best western RPG ever, and arguably game of the year)
GRAW
Kameo (it was OK)
Geometry Wars
Perfect Dark (was OK)
Call of Duty (great game, laggy live support)
Dead or Alive 4 (I don't like the series but many enjoy it)
Dead Rising
Ninety Nine Nights (don't diss it is by ex-SEGA, current Lumines, mastermind Tetsuya Mizuguchi)

Le SHARK
03-09-2007, 17:12
True, but I own those games for the Mega Drive. ;) That's the thing, since the Dreamcast died, for me it seems arcade ports never appear as much, which is a damn shame.

Golden Axe on the 360 IS the Arcade version though, however its still nice haveing the Mega Drive version for the PSP. :biggrin:

Gravity
16-09-2007, 09:17
Why did Dreamcast died? Easy, Sony's marketing for the Playstation 2 was perfect. Sega had no chance having a better marketing then Sony.

JJ4eva
17-09-2007, 01:50
The Dreamcast was a problem with SEGA since they were attempting to develop 2 consoles at once (they started development of the DC alongside the saturn).

Now naturally this is quite costly to do as you're paying out for more advanced hardware and software moving in new directions while working on an "old" project at the same time to get it out to the public.

Another problem with SEGA at the time, was that, during this time, SEGA was approached by 3rd parties they were unfamiliar with, EA games (who promised to help SEGA) turned their back, so to speak, and instead of aiding SEGA as promised, did not offer them 3rd party support.

So the 3rd parties that did come to SEGA were turned down for 2 main factors;

1. SEGA did not have the money to support and develop with the new 3rd parties
2. SEGA were not all that familiar with them and weren't sure if the new 3rd parties would help their console survive


Of course, looking at #2 we realise ourselves that it would have helped as the 3rd parties that were turned down by SEGA then went to SONY and kept the PS2 up and running.

~JJ

32x
17-09-2007, 05:34
Far as I'm concerned the Dreamcast is still alive. Officially, it's dead, but with the amount of "homebrew" hacks and the amount of people who still use them, I would say otherwise. In Japan the Dreamcast still sells out as soon as they get them in. So far I'm yet to be told the PS2 or PS1 etc do the same. I can't actually see a console like the Dreamcast, still heavily used by gamers being dead. With the homebrew scene, Dreamcast fans and what's happened in Japan with the system selling out as soon as it comes in, the Dreamcast looks to me like it's still very much alive.

JJ4eva
17-09-2007, 09:08
Sure it sells out when new hardware is in, same happens in scotland, or at least in my hometown, however, the term dead is a generic term, byt he end of 2008 the PS2 will be "dead" it means that no more games are being made for the console. this being said, only 3 PS2 games are being made in 2008 bringing up, as soon as the third one is made the PS2 will become a "dead" console, no new software.

LeeMan00
16-10-2007, 00:03
Far as I'm concerned the Dreamcast is still alive. Officially, it's dead, but with the amount of "homebrew" hacks and the amount of people who still use them, I would say otherwise. In Japan the Dreamcast still sells out as soon as they get them in. So far I'm yet to be told the PS2 or PS1 etc do the same. I can't actually see a console like the Dreamcast, still heavily used by gamers being dead. With the homebrew scene, Dreamcast fans and what's happened in Japan with the system selling out as soon as it comes in, the Dreamcast looks to me like it's still very much alive.
I agree, if you play it, it lives on and it's the perfered system of a lot of people. When I got my first Dreamcast, I'll admit I didn't play it as much as I do now. In fact, for a while I favored the PS2. Thing is, now, the Sega consoles are in my room and the Sony are in my brother's. In fact, I even use the CD player function just to listen to SOAD when I'm bored, so even if I don't play a game, I still use the DC everyday.

Nitrosport2000
23-10-2007, 16:40
The Dreamcast failed due to a combination of bad marketing, bad business decisions by SEGA and easily pirated software. Did you know the Dreamcast got pulled from the market during its best week of sales? I'm sure it would have made it if SEGA had held on for a little bit more. I guess they were so screwed money wise that they had to throw in the towel.

Knute_The_Conqueror
03-11-2007, 19:11
To me, I thing it was poor advertisement and people doing games for other systems instead of the Dreamcast.

Asura
07-11-2007, 14:01
Far as I'm concerned the Dreamcast is still alive. Officially, it's dead, but with the amount of "homebrew" hacks and the amount of people who still use them, I would say otherwise. In Japan the Dreamcast still sells out as soon as they get them in. So far I'm yet to be told the PS2 or PS1 etc do the same.

Sorry, but that's just factually incorrect. Naturally the DC isn't in production anymore, so how do they "get them in" to sell out?

If you're referring to second hand units, the DC is notoriously unreliable - extremely prone to breaking down. It's one of the least reliable second hand game consoles (I used to work for a major retailer so believe me I know). Many fans have one or two spares for extra parts. The knock-on effect of this is that the number of serviceable units is dwindling all the time, so it appears to be selling out - in reality there are just less of them with each passing year.

The PS2/PS1 have sold out at various times in their history. The PSP recently sold out in Japan with the release of that FFVII spinoff title.

32x
07-11-2007, 14:49
If you're referring to second hand units, the DC is notoriously unreliable - extremely prone to breaking down. It's one of the least reliable second hand game consoles (I used to work for a major retailer so believe me I know).
Actually the PAL Dreamcasts are the most reliable systems I have ever known to exist. I even tried to kill one off before by scratching the laser with a dart and it still ran games perfectly. I own Dreamcasts now I have owned for years and they still run to this day as if they were brand new, so I don't know what line of Dreamcasts your talking about, because everyone I own and had, has been more reliable than a tank.

Mufasa
07-11-2007, 15:04
Sorry, but that's just factually incorrect. Naturally the DC isn't in production anymore, so how do they "get them in" to sell out?

Backing up a second, this is in the context of the Dreamcast being "alive". It all depends on how you define alive. If you mean, Sega still produces the system and is making profits from the system--its dead. If you mean that there is a significant sized community of interested people still wishing to obtain systems and related hardware/software, then it is still alive.

If you're referring to second hand units, the DC is notoriously unreliable - extremely prone to breaking down. It's one of the least reliable second hand game consoles (I used to work for a major retailer so believe me I know).

Well I think reliability, as a whole may depend in part by the conditions of your physical region in the world. Here in the US, I don't think any significant amount of people would consider the systems unreliable. In my lifetime, I've owned 2. Why? Only because I needed money and sold mine. Both my Sega Sports Dreamcast (new) and current classic Dreamcast have never once given me any problems. I think if we were to find a reputable resource on console reliability, Dreamcast will be up with the more reliable optical media based consoles. Systems like the XBOX 360 and PS2, however, I don't think will fare as well. My poor PS2 (used) barely boots now. I need to get myself another one (that isn't slim). :( Just using this forum as a sample, I'm pretty sure you'll find a significant number of XBOX 360 failures (http://www.radiosega.net/forum/showthread.php?t=179) compared to Dreamcast failures.

Many fans have one or two spares for extra parts. The knock-on effect of this is that the number of serviceable units is dwindling all the time, so it appears to be selling out - in reality there are just less of them with each passing year.

Well in respect to this... I'm unaware of people as a common practice keeping a Dreamcast for spare parts. I think the part of the yearly trends of "selling out" may have some minor amount of people getting new ones due to failures, however, I think the bigger factor is that people are keeping their Dreamcasts. Due to Sega's poor marketing and a new generation of gamers, only in this boom of interest in "classic" gaming systems and games are people discovering Dreamcast for the first time.

SegaMark
07-11-2007, 15:40
Whilst the PAL units are fairly un-reliable, the NTSC machines are built like tanks. I work in a UK retailer and some PAL machines come back, but it's nowhere nearly as bad as some make out.

Anyway, the PSX, PS2 and 360 are far more prone to failure.

Mufasa
07-11-2007, 16:26
Anyway, the PSX, PS2 and 360 are far more prone to failure.

Yeah. The PSX and PS2 have the "swap trick" reducing their lives and the 360's initial revisions didn't adequately handle heat. Since you don't need a swap chip or mod chip on a Dreamcast, there is less reason for people to damage their systems.

ShoShoKid
07-11-2007, 17:26
Sorry, but that's just factually incorrect. Naturally the DC isn't in production anymore, so how do they "get them in" to sell out?

If you're referring to second hand units, the DC is notoriously unreliable - extremely prone to breaking down. It's one of the least reliable second hand game consoles (I used to work for a major retailer so believe me I know). Many fans have one or two spares for extra parts. The knock-on effect of this is that the number of serviceable units is dwindling all the time, so it appears to be selling out - in reality there are just less of them with each passing year.

The PS2/PS1 have sold out at various times in their history. The PSP recently sold out in Japan with the release of that FFVII spinoff title.


I believe a large reason that failures are caused are because of pirated games. If they are not dummied then the information is usually just spread throughout the disc and cannot be read the way that the GD-ROM was intended to read such large amounts of information (given the pits were closer together than a CD-ROM).

SegaMark
07-11-2007, 19:01
Yeah. The PSX and PS2 have the "swap trick" reducing their lives and the 360's initial revisions didn't adequately handle heat. Since you don't need a swap chip or mod chip on a Dreamcast, there is less reason for people to damage their systems.

Sony's lasers were so awful. I knew a few people with PlayStations which would only read discs when the unit was upside down. That was rectified in later revisions though, when they moved the laser further away from the PSU, it was all to do with heat.

We all know how bad the PS2 was with "DRE"... Plus the AV ports are easily damaged on the PSX and PS2.

I know at some point this year Dreamcasts in Japan were sold out almost everywhere, due to the new releases it has been having. Sega stopped selling refurbished consoles last year though. Hopefully we'll see at least one new release last year, as it will be the DC's 10th anniversary.

32x
07-11-2007, 19:06
I know at some point this year Dreamcasts in Japan were sold out almost everywhere, due to the new releases it has been having. Sega stopped selling refurbished consoles last year though. Hopefully we'll see at least one new release last year, as it will be the DC's 10th anniversary.
A really really good Sonic game in everyshop worldwide would be a slap in the face to Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft and would be oh so good! ^_^ I would prefer the Sonic game over a newer Dreamcast since I don't see any problems with the one's that are out now. :)

TreyTable
07-01-2008, 16:15
I buyed my dremcast a few years ago what I cant understand is why it went down so fast in 3 years now sony playstation2 is taking a back seat to ps3 and it is not working for sony this is why I think in a few years sega will come out with a new system for next generration.

1. The Dreamcast didn't die. If it did, would we be here?

(that's my happy answer)

2. The fact of the matter was, and I'll simplify it, SEGA was broke, they had been in debt for a few years to the tune of (I forget the amount, but it was a lot of money), and the Dreamcast console was SEGA's swan song, their make-or-break last ditch effort for survival.

Now here's the sad thing. The Dreamcast was not doing very well in Japan, but at that time of its launch window, Q4 1998 in Japan, and September 9th, 1999 in North America, the market belonged to the PlayStation and Game Boy (for Pokemon). The Dreamcast didn't do well in Japan against the PlayStation but was a critical sucess in North America.

In both Japan and North America there was a new foe on the horizon. It wasn't the PlayStation 2 per se, but it was something more dangerous; the HYPE of the PlayStation 2. The PS2 was marketed as the console to end all consoles (sure, it did become that, but not in its first year, or the hype machine the year before that, 1999), and since Sony had easily taken near total control of the home console market, leaving only scraps for the N64 and Saturn, with the first PlayStation, most people (including me) had nothing but high hopes for the PS2.

Now SEGA is running scared, and out of money, of this threat of the PlayStation 2 and what that "Emotion Engine" can render in real-time, and at the same time, third party publishers are signing on with the PS2 and dropping their Dreamcast productions in favor of the hype for the PS2. Yes, not the system, but the hype.

As the PlayStation 2 was released in Japan in April 2000 and North America in October 2000 many people got to see things they didn't expect, with good reason, these things were not too obvious on the Dreamcast. These things were called "Jaggies." The PlayStation 2 had a flaw, a big one, no hardware based anti-aliasing, giving games a rough look, which was very apparent in launch titles such as SSX, Tekken Tag Tournament and Ridge Racer V. But still hype was very strong, and in a last ditch effort, in America, SEGA decided to give away the Dreamcast for "free." It wasn't truly free, but if one were to sign up with SEGA.net, SEGA's gaming ISP for the Dreamcast, one would get a check in the mail to pay for the cost of a Dreamcast console.

As the PlayStation 2 began its world domination, its start was in Japan, where up until then a DVD Player was too much money for the average consumer, and the PS2 being a game console and a DVD player (not a good DVD player, but still less money than a standard DVD player) many people in Japan were buying the PS2 for its abilty to play DVDs and at first many owners didn't even have any games.

In America, the Dreamcast seemed, to me, to be the better of the two, with the ability to play games online, up to 8 players in some cases, on dial-up, and even more impressive was that my own crappy phone lines only gave me a connection of 31.1 Kbps (on a 56K Modem) which made online play on a PC just plain terrible but on a Dreamcast, truly magaical.

But nobody could forsee that SEGA's biggest games for Q4 2000 would flop so bad, as was the case with Jet Grind Radio and not as bad, but stilll not great with Shenmue. But to me, I loved both games, and the online gaming aspect was still a lure, especially with the January 2001 release of Phantasy Star Online.

In Japan the situation was worse, and even though the Dreamcast was doing spectacular in the biggest market, North America, in March 2001 SEGA announced, that because they couldn't make money in Japan, the closed-minded heads of SEGA announced that as of March 31st 2001, SEGA would cease production of the Dreamcast.

Idiots. SEGA had finally made it out of the red and turned a (small) profit for the fiscal year ending in April 2001, and yet they drop the platform.

Looking back at SEGA's previous consoles, the Saturn did poor in North America but quite well in Japan, the Mega Drive did very poor in Japan, but as the Genesis it rocked in North America. The Mark III / Master System did poorly in North America against the NES, but the Master System did wonderful in Europe. But with the Dreamcast, none of that mattered. WTF, right?

SEGA did do one thing right, they continued online support for their Dreamcast games such as the 2K Sports games and PSO & PSOv2 longer than they had to. I think that support of the online games, especially in PSOv2, which was given an extra year of life over what SEGA promised, is one of the main reasons the Dreamcast lived so long after its "death", that and the coin-op machines, NAOMI, NAOMI 2, Tri-Force, and others, that used had games on GD-ROM discs.

Lastly, SEGA was sold by its parent company CSK Holdings Corporation in 2004 to Sammy Corporation (and Visual Concepts was sold to Take-Two Interactive) who changed the company name to SEGA Sammy Holdings where SEGA is now a third party developer (and sometimes publisher) of console, handheld, and mobile games and a first party developer of coin-op games.

SEGA Sammy Holdings has stated time and again that there will not be a new game console from SEGA, not this gen, not next gen, not for a while. I take it they are making good money as a third party developer and/or publisher.

ShoShoKid
07-01-2008, 20:11
Well, don't you guys think that it died from more than just the PS2 hype? I understand it was powerful, as I remember it quite well. However, the Dreamcast had other problems that I mentioned earlier.

I suppose it's arguable that Bernie Stolar would have been much help past the launch of the Dreamcast considering how he handled Saturn. Though he did hype it quite well. However, piracy, and spending all of the advertising budget probably do SEGA much good either.

TreyTable
15-01-2008, 15:30
.........I should be, but oddly, I'm not.

However, I am glad that SOMEONE gets to play PSO online. As for us Americans....there's always PSU...don't feel like paying 9 dollars a month when I'm already paying 50 a year.
Actually, like Final Fantasy XI, you don't need XBOX Live to play PSU online, just the monthly fee. Or so I hear.. Is Phantasy Star Online IV: Blue Burst (for PC, although it felt the GCN PSO games) still around? That was free, IIRC.

Barnaby
15-01-2008, 17:27
As well as the PS2's hype killing the Dreamcast, it was the god awful advertising that it had it Europe that may have also led to it's demise. Their adverts consisted of showing no game footage, sometimes not even the word SEGA - I remember one which was just a guy sitting in a hair dressers, having his hair cut into the Dreamcast's swirl. SEGA really shouldn't have outsourced advertising to other companies - poor marketing meant that some people who saw the adverts didn't even know what a Dreamcast WAS, so how could they expect people to buy them?

And the Dreamcast isn't dead to everyone - if it's still played, it's still alive. Now that I've finally got my own TV in my room, I've set up my Dreamcast and bought some new games for it. Seaman came in the post this morning :D.

Oh, and TreyTable, PSO: Blue Burst is still around, but you cannot sign up for it as the server's are closing in March. If you had already signed up to it, even for the 14 day trial (it still had subscription fees) then you can play it free from now until March. Or (like I have) play it on private servers. Although I can't post the link to the private server's site, unless SegaMark's OK with it.

Mufasa
15-01-2008, 17:32
Although I can't post the link to the private server's site, unless Mark's OK with it.

Well I'm OK with it and this has been discussed before (http://www.radiosega.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5445#post5445) mentioning the private PSO server (http://www.radiosega.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5471#post5471).

Batou Z
21-03-2008, 09:26
well yea it had 3 years to start building its fan base but when ps2 came out it just blow it to hell and left it there with a broken leg to die. my presonal reason for thinking this and i know im not alone is that the software that came out from PS2 was just way better then whatever was out for the dreamcast. Dont get me wrong i still have 1 and love playing powerstone but its just not fun when theres a way beter version on the psp that has been pimpt put and handels better. point being better hardware leads up to more people wanting it. "Honey to the bee's" so to speek.-_-

Adam Novagen
22-03-2008, 16:48
I buyed my dremcast a few years ago what I cant understand is why it went down so fast in 3 years now sony playstation2 is taking a back seat to ps3 and it is not working for sony this is why I think in a few years sega will come out with a new system for next generration.
Here's the thing: PS3 is more advanced (and IMO, better) than the PS2, just as PS2 was more advanced than the DC. The problem is that most people forget that just because something isn't the BEST doesn't mean it's not GOOD.
As a side issue, SA2 achieved a full 60 FPS more consistently than any other game I know. Yay DC! :guitar:

Gavvie
22-03-2008, 17:50
Let's not forget that when the PS2s release date was announced, interest in the DC dropped quicker than a lead shite. SEGA could never compete against the might of an oncoming PlayStation release, because the market potential just wasn't there. Gamers who wanted a DC already had one, and everybody who didn't have one sat it out and waited for the PS2 to come out.

It's a shame, but those are the facts of life.

sonic15
24-03-2008, 02:15
I agree that sega dreamcast was tourned down by the others consoles by the limited space on the gd games and also SEGA have been all time lider on game technology, that tourned into a problem, every time they rush and lunch something first, other companies wait to improve it, so sega is the initial step, thats why they decide to give up whit new ideas and go for the sure thing, or havent you notice that sega have no new things. i mean games whit magic like nights were something , or a blue hedehog runing faster than a f22!!! that kind of games used to be all new brand formulas, were they imagine that from. so viking, ironman, remakes every way, is no really strange story. (off course there is new things like billy and monkey ball.) there is always a exeption to the rule^-^

Reknoc
24-03-2008, 03:17
The Dreamcast joined a suicide cult.

That and the PS2 had alot of promising games announced. MGS2? Yea you stood no chance, hell Sony are doing the exact same thing this time. Hope you want MGS4 because there's no other reason to own a PS3.

Gavvie
24-03-2008, 16:58
Course there is, but MGS4 is what's getting people the most excited, unless you're a JRPG fan, in which case you've got the two FFXIII games due out within the next year (apparently).

Dreamcast never had that "WOW" game. Sure, there were games like Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia to keep the fans happy, but they never dragged in new custom. In a sense, that's the problem with SEGA as a developer these days. They make the games that make SEGA fans get excited, but everybody else just seems to overlook them.

However, the games that SEGA publish..different story there.

TF73
28-03-2008, 23:16
I think the Dreamcast had several "WOW" games. But I think the problem was that Sony had become to popular with the playstation brand. Personally i think the PS2 was a huge dissapointment both when it came to games and the technology. Only game worth mentioning is FFX. Sega had their "WOW'S" with Shenmue and PSO to mention a couple of games. I think the major problem was that the gaming community is not that "hardcore" anymore. The situation is still the same. Gamers in general have moved from hardcore to casual and Sega have in the past been for the hardcore. I think that was the main problem for the Dreamcast, it was aimed for hardcore gamers and there wasn't enough of them anymore.

But as long as there is produced games for the DC i do not consider it dead!!:)

Reknoc
29-03-2008, 10:04
I think the Dreamcast had several "WOW" games. But I think the problem was that Sony had become to popular with the playstation brand. Personally i think the PS2 was a huge dissapointment both when it came to games and the technology. Only game worth mentioning is FFX.

It had "WOW" games for previous SEGA fans. It certainly didn't have any for JRPG fans, it had like what 3? 4 if you count PSO.

Yes at the time of its launch and then for a couple of years the PS2 was crap the same can be said for most consoles. MGS2 was a dissapointment removing the decent main character for the whiney prick raiden and having even more cutscenes and codec conversations and FFX somehow managed to be worse than FFVII and FFVIII. However there is no way you can still say the PS2 is a bad console, if you can't find several games that you like then there's obviously something wrong with your taste in games.

Dr Shaneman
29-03-2008, 18:43
It had "WOW" games for previous SEGA fans. It certainly didn't have any for JRPG fans, it had like what 3? 4 if you count PSO.

Yes at the time of its launch and then for a couple of years the PS2 was crap the same can be said for most consoles. MGS2 was a dissapointment removing the decent main character for the whiney prick raiden and having even more cutscenes and codec conversations and FFX somehow managed to be worse than FFVII and FFVIII. However there is no way you can still say the PS2 is a bad console, if you can't find several games that you like then there's obviously something wrong with your taste in games.
That is true the PS2 has a huge collection of games for it so you can't knock it really. If the Dreamcast had as many titles with a good number of games for each genre then...

TF73
30-03-2008, 00:23
The PS2 sold on the brand and not the games in my opinion. The gaming community had changed. Now most gamers are mainstream and not hardcode and that is why the Dreamcast lost the battle. The console and the games was mostly based towards hardcode audience. Back then i thought the PS2 was a huge dissapointment. Looking at it now and comparing it to the Dreamcast i still think the same.

neocoyo
12-05-2008, 18:39
if the dreamcast is dead why are there still games being made for it?

i mean if you get my drift sega has been at the fore-front of almost every gaming revolution the master system had the 3D goggles, the mega drive had and i quote "blast processing" which made it faster than anny console before it, the saturn high quality true 3D games and the dreamcast was the first true consle to A have full online abilities and B the only to be able to support up to 99 players at a time which since no consloe has pulled off (the PC being an exeption to the rule >_<)

with that under SEGAs belt it makes nintendo look like a novice

richarddavies
13-05-2008, 14:43
I love the dreamcast but it doesn't matter how you look at it, commercially it died on it's arse. Its the fans that are keeping the machine alive but I think thats enough. The only failing I think sega may have made on a business side is not utilising there back catalogue of really good franchises they have for the system. theres quite a few games I would,ve chopped a nut off to see on the dream machine.

Gavvie
13-05-2008, 22:51
^ Yeah, but some of them are better left in the past. I'm very apprehensive of the new Golden Axe game, and we know from experience that Altered Beast was an unmitigated disaster.

One of the few killer blows would have been developing Virtua Fighter 4 exclusively for PS2. Had that been a Dreamcast release as well, I think it would have perked up interest in the console, rather than turning people away from it.

richarddavies
14-05-2008, 10:13
Yeah I just think from a business perspective I think it could've done wonders for the casual gamer masses if they were like"remember SOR,Shinobi,Alex kidd [insert more sega games here] well look at em now" Anyway it's all shoulda,woulda,coulda now I suppose.....

Rayne
15-05-2008, 15:45
Yeah I just think from a business perspective I think it could've done wonders for the casual gamer masses if they were like"remember SOR,Shinobi,Alex kidd [insert more sega games here] well look at em now" Anyway it's all shoulda,woulda,coulda now I suppose.....

I would killed to have seen the dreamcast succeed, it was one of the most exciting console releases ever..

That said, I think Sega need a few more franchises, as amazing as some Genesis games were, they'd die in a transition to 3d (streets of rage for example)

There are a few games that should have been and will never be, I'd have loved to have seen NiGHTS on the dreamcast...

Gavvie
15-05-2008, 16:53
Mm, a NiGHTS on the Dreamcast would've rocked, I agree, but at least we got a sequel eventually!

It's a shame that some games that are good on the DC never came out over here, notably Illbleed and Virtual On 2. Would've been nice if Half-Life had come as well, and not been cancelled so close to release.

Rayne
15-05-2008, 17:03
I've seen the dreamcast half-life =] my friend downloaded it, strange, its so near completion with few to zero bugs, its a mystery as to why they cancelled it so late..

and nights for the wii, yuk XD Why oh why did they have to add those little kids?

Gavvie
15-05-2008, 17:07
The Saturn one had little kids as well, only that didn't have voice acting. I've not got around to playing the Wii version though.

And yeah, Half-Life on DC is very good. I've got it on a disc that my DC'll read, and used to play it quite frequently. The only bug I've seen is regarding save files. It pretty much uses up an entire memory card just to save one file.

Rayne
15-05-2008, 17:17
Owch >< if there's one thing this gen has done right, its having hard drives

Are you on Xbox Live? =3

JohnDover
30-06-2008, 13:35
The Dreamcast died for tonnes of reasons but mainly because at the time I remember the fuss made about the lack of DVD facility! These days it seems stupid but it made a big difference to dumb people.

EA's lack of support was a big problem because the annual updates (fifa etc. ) excluded the DC.

On the bright side, those that stuck by the machine realised that Sega had worked wonders on a (relatively) small budget and made up for the madness of the 32x. The controller is perfect and apart from the wii the dreamcast is historically the best console in terms of add-ons. VMU/rumble/fishing rod/keyboard/gun/virtua-on sticks the list goes on and on.

With new games still being released the Dreamcast well and truly lives!!

Rayne
30-06-2008, 13:46
The Dreamcast died for tonnes of reasons but mainly because at the time I remember the fuss made about the lack of DVD facility! These days it seems stupid but it made a big difference to dumb people.

EA's lack of support was a big problem because the annual updates (fifa etc. ) excluded the DC.

On the bright side, those that stuck by the machine realised that Sega had worked wonders on a (relatively) small budget and made up for the madness of the 32x. The controller is perfect and apart from the wii the dreamcast is historically the best console in terms of add-ons. VMU/rumble/fishing rod/keyboard/gun/virtua-on sticks the list goes on and on.

With new games still being released the Dreamcast well and truly lives!!

I agree with the lack of DVD support, back then DVD players were bloody expensive, the Gamecube suffered the same problem, and likley didn't do as well because of that too

My Xbox was always plugged in so I could watch DVD's, my Gamecube never really was.

To date the dreamcast has seen some of the coolest limited edition bundles ever =3

ShoShoKid
30-06-2008, 20:24
Soul Calibur and Sonic Adventure were huge at E3 and every other notable gaming convention the Dreamcast showed up at the world over. Whether it be graphics, or critical acclaim. Shenmue was huge, and extremely hyped. Jet Grind Radio invented cel-shading as we know it today. PSO was also home to some fair hype as well.

Sherlock
30-06-2008, 20:43
And let's not forget Guilty Gear.

GamerGeorge
01-07-2008, 13:03
Why did the Dreamcast die?
IMO, three major reasons contributed to the demise of the Dreamcast on a worldwide scale:

1. The impending launch of the PlayStation 2.
2. The fact that it was rather easy to obtain bootleg/pirated copies of games.
3. The majority of the public's distrust towards Sega.

Any one of those reasons alone would have spelled serious trouble for the little white wonder, but the sheer combination of all three really drove the point home in a sense that Sega was royally screwed, even with the great third-party support they were receiving and the first-party games they developed and released themselves.

It's a legitimate shame the Dreamcast was discontinued because to this day I believe it to be superior to the PlayStation 2, GameCube, and Xbox from a library point-of-view.

seganewbie6445450
01-07-2008, 17:50
Well for me, it was certainly the hype that got me wanting a PS2 and now I want to slap myself for it. :mad: *facepalm*. Everyone else had one at school and I wanted one to. When I finally had enough money for a console, the Dreamcast was "dead"... so I got the PS2 and I'm annoyed now because that broke >.<. At least my PS1 still works fine :)

Speaking of mechanical problems my old friend said his broke whenever I asked to go on it. Sucks... because I'm sure if I had played it, it would have been marvellous ^^.

Now i need money for a 2nd hand dreamcast... that's if i can find 1 :( and don't forget the Mega-drive ^_^, i need one of them to! XD.... but emulation is OK with me ^^.

Rayne
01-07-2008, 17:53
Well for me, it was certainly the hype that got me wanting a PS2 and now I want to slap myself for it. :mad: *facepalm*. Everyone else had one at school and I wanted one to. When I finally had enough money for a console, the Dreamcast was "dead"... so I got the PS2 and I'm annoyed now because that broke >.<. At least my PS1 still works fine :)

Speaking of mechanical problems my old friend said his broke whenever I asked to go on it. Sucks... because I'm sure if I had played it, it would have been marvellous ^^.

Now i need money for a 2nd hand dreamcast... that's if i can find 1 :( and don't forget the Mega-drive ^_^, i need one of them to! XD.... but emulation is OK with me ^^.

Ebay is great =3 you can get a big bundle for about £20

seganewbie6445450
02-07-2008, 16:45
Ebay is great =3 you can get a big bundle for about £20

My parents are finicky about Ebay and won't let me use it :mad:, but i can try bothering my friends ^^, that's always works... lol

I'll check it out when I have some cash ^_^

Rayne
02-07-2008, 16:52
My parents are finicky about Ebay and won't let me use it :mad:, but i can try bothering my friends ^^, that's always works... lol

I'll check it out when I have some cash ^_^

Well if not ebay, Gamestation often have dreamcast bundles for about £20-25 :)

Killer French Bread
02-07-2008, 19:23
I was under the impression most Gamestations got rid of all their retro stock. Mine certainly did.

Rayne
02-07-2008, 19:24
I was under the impression most Gamestations got rid of all their retro stock. Mine certainly did.

My local one still has 4 pack bundles of games and the consoles...they also have SNES, Xbox, etc

Reknoc
02-07-2008, 19:53
I was under the impression most Gamestations got rid of all their retro stock. Mine certainly did.

Yea mine did aswell then like a few weeks later they brought them all back again.

seganewbie6445450
02-07-2008, 21:53
I was under the impression most Gamestations got rid of all their retro stock. Mine certainly did.

I guess it depends on your Gamestation and how popular it is. I live in York and they have Xboxs, PS2s, + N64's, but nothing earlier than that - and no Sega systems -_-.... luckily we have a 2nd hand shop near ^_^.... i saw some Dreamcasts once, but i didn't have enougth cash for 1 -_-.... so i got the next best thing they were selling... A gamecube :P lol.

DarkHedge
02-07-2008, 21:56
The Dreamcast died for tonnes of reasons but mainly because at the time I remember the fuss made about the lack of DVD facility! These days it seems stupid but it made a big difference to dumb people.

EA's lack of support was a big problem because the annual updates (fifa etc. ) excluded the DC.

On the bright side, those that stuck by the machine realised that Sega had worked wonders on a (relatively) small budget and made up for the madness of the 32x. The controller is perfect and apart from the wii the dreamcast is historically the best console in terms of add-ons. VMU/rumble/fishing rod/keyboard/gun/virtua-on sticks the list goes on and on.

With new games still being released the Dreamcast well and truly lives!!
That and the fact SEGA didn't reused or ported excellent franchises. Trust me, if they ever did a SCUD Race port, and/or a Daytona USA 2 one, the Dreamcast would have lived WAY longer than expected... =P

Killer French Bread
02-07-2008, 22:36
Hmmm, maybe I'll have another look for the old stock next time I'm in the area then. They used to have all sorts of stuff like Master system, Neo geo and Saturn games. I was gutted when they binned the lot only to have more rows of FPSs.

Lol, to digress I just heard people talking about the DC on Big Brother.

Rayne
02-07-2008, 22:39
Hmmm, maybe I'll have another look for the old stock next time I'm in the area then. They used to have all sorts of stuff like Master system, Neo geo and Saturn games. I was gutted when they binned the lot only to have more rows of FPSs.

Lol, to digress I just heard people talking about the DC on Big Brother.

My heart skips a beat when I come accross an independant Games store :) There's the long line of next gen drivel and then...BEHIND THE COUNTER! The glass cases! Sealed copies of Secret of Mana, Brand new Dreamcasts, Retro heaven <3

Killer French Bread
02-07-2008, 22:54
The market is where I go to now, I live in Leicester so it's quite big and you're often surprised at the rare games that turn up. The downside is the stuff can be a bit manky so you need to give everything a good examination before buying.

Rayne
02-07-2008, 23:03
The market is where I go to now, I live in Leicester so it's quite big and you're often surprised at the rare games that turn up. The downside is the stuff can be a bit manky so you need to give everything a good examination before buying.

Lucky :P I'd kill to have a market like that

Though for me, I buy sealed copies, collectors ed, boxed with all documentation, etc, so it tends to be Ebay and stores...

I remember seeing a market in Holland and it had stack after stack of Genesis and Saturn games o_o thousands

zelda_sushi
27-07-2008, 03:20
Phantasy Star Online for Dreamcast and Gamecube is being taken offline at the end of March.

Say bye bye.

Even though these games have been taken offline officially forever you can still play them online. I won't submit the link but there is a privately run server that is running for Dreamcast and GameCube owners called schthack (http://www.schtserv.com/).

But as for why the Dreamcast died... it seems other people have already covered that area. ^^' I wish the system didn't die though because it's such an awesome console.

DarkHedge
27-07-2008, 20:29
Actually can we ever say it's dead ? Commercially it is. Thank the fanbase to keep it alive!

Dr Shaneman
27-07-2008, 22:54
Actually can we ever say it's dead ? Commercially it is. Thank the fanbase to keep it alive!
That's a dam good point. If people still love and talk about it so much then technically it isn't dead. It will be dead when no one speaks of it for a long time.

zelda_sushi
28-07-2008, 20:55
I never say that the system failed in the market because it didn't. It did fantastic and had a great game library to back it but it was bad marketing on Sega's part that killed the system. They couldn't hold hype off of the Playstation 2 because of Sony's aggressive advertising and in the end lost consumer interest regardless if the Dreamcast had better games for the first few years it was around.

The Dreamcast is "dead" to about 80% of gamers out there. These are the gamers that buy all next-gen and forget about their previous systems and only really play games as a "fad" which I find annoying. The rest of the gamers, the "core" as they're called still talk about the system, play the system and even buy games for it still. They're the ones that keep independant companies releasing games for it.

Xingy
25-09-2008, 17:02
I think it died because it didn´t play DVD´s , and the PS2 did And thats no good because you should play a console not watch DVD on it

Dr Shaneman
25-09-2008, 17:59
I think it died because it didn´t play DVD´s , and the PS2 did And thats no good because you should play a console not watch DVD on it
Beats buying a DVD player separate though, back then they were expensive whilst now they are around £10 for a normal non-recordable one.

Rayne
25-09-2008, 18:34
Beats buying a DVD player separate though, back then they were expensive whilst now they are around £10 for a normal non-recordable one.

I remember the DVD's just comming into fashion and my parents buying a player at the better part of £80-100 (I think) so to not have one was a bitch, that's what hurt the gamecube too.

Omega
25-09-2008, 18:49
The Dreamcast proved that people will buy a system just because it has something new and shiny. Most people bought it because of the DVD player, just like people are buying the PS3 for the Blu-Ray player. In the end most people who ran out and got a PS2 went back and got a DC because they realized the games were better.

FPS_Leo
25-09-2008, 18:54
I got a PS2 'cause my parents offered to get me one for Christmas.:P I didn't even want one as I was happy with my original PlayStation.XD I rember when I got it my dad shortly bought Ronin on DVD (which is a crackin' action movie BTW) as I told him it could play them.:rolleyes:

LeeMan00
28-09-2008, 00:23
My brother got his around 2002, and we didn't' have anything good for a few years later, but now its pretty good. I've had a dreamcast since launch, and buy games whenever I can. :3

Mr. Domino
30-09-2008, 14:21
That and the fact SEGA didn't reused or ported excellent franchises.

The Dreamcast revived many Sega franchises ignored on Saturn including Sonic, Phantasy Star, Ecco, and Daytona. Had the console not been canceled, we would have seen ToeJam & Earl as well.

The Dreamcast simply failed because Sega of Japan pulled the plug on it due to sustaining too much debt from the Saturn era to afford to continue to support the machine. The system was a success, and there is no reason to say it would not have continued along that path. Sure, things could have been improved here and there, particularly SegaNet and the lack of on-line games for so long after launch, but people love the machine since it saw several new AAA titles released each month.

richarddavies
30-09-2008, 16:11
To be fair there were loads of other franchises that people were dying to see come back that they never bothered with for some inexplicible reason.

Killer French Bread
30-09-2008, 16:44
I know gamers moaned saying "Where's my nights 2" all the time, but
I was glad they didn't rehash franchises too. It's the easy option as it makes so much sense from a commercial point of view, so for artistic reasons I applaud the move.

Gaara
30-09-2008, 20:58
Piracy.

p_nut_uk
30-09-2008, 21:04
Luke, you need to give more of an answer than that.

Rayne
30-09-2008, 21:22
I know gamers moaned saying "Where's my nights 2" all the time, but
I was glad they didn't rehash franchises too. It's the easy option as it makes so much sense from a commercial point of view, so for artistic reasons I applaud the move.

To be honest if they'd saw a 2nd NiGHTS would sell and had more money at the time they'd have been only too happy to churn out a sequel.

Killer French Bread
30-09-2008, 22:13
Yeah, you are right, Nights is probably not the best example. Still, I think carrying on with the same old series through the Saturn and Dreamcas eras with known franchises would have been the lazy option most other companies will have taken. They didn't bleed dry names like Streets of Rage, Ecco, Shinobi, Outrun etc. Like Sony and Nintendo do with even half a successful game now. And if not churning out the sequels, then re-using the same old tedious characters time and time again usually seems all too tempting for everyone. Refreshingly not the opinion of Sega back then either.

I'm just trying to say that even though it probably sounds great to have all the sequels to familiar names it doesn't always work out like you imagine, and that project took away the chance of a new series. Look at the Wii now, hardly anything original because all the fanboys want a new Mario/Zelda and the like constantly. Sometimes gamers need to show a bit of self discipline too, and stop moaning about wanting sequels and trust developers get on with making interesting new games.

Rayne
30-09-2008, 22:20
The thing that bugs me, more than anything else with video games are mascots having their own titles

"A new adventure game featuring the plucky sheep companion of..." ARGH

amcdc79
05-10-2008, 21:10
The Dreamcast died due to all of the reasons given so far;
No DVD
PS2 outselling it by a large margin
Sega being broke
Most third parties treating it as an arcade cash machine(there were exceptions-Ubisoft)

But the final nail was piracy, as Sega needed the money from the game sales desperately.
They saw a few games sell well, but the majority of them would stall within a couple of weeks when all of the pirated copies came out.
Every single used Dreamcast I've bought came with a ton of bootlegs, there are Dreamcast owners on Gamefaqs who brag about haveing never seen a GD-Rom.

Piracy also hit the rental market in a big way so there were less sales to the chains who saw the Dreamcast market as the slowest one, and got rid of the games they had as fast as they could to make room for more PS2, and later the X-box and GCN games.
Speaking of the X-box and Gamecube, Sega was not alone in thinking that they would be more successful then they ended up, so Sega felt they would be squeezed even more by two more competitors.
It's really too bad as the Dreamcast games just released, and comming out could of quite possably saved it, but we'll never know.

MrEthernex
11-10-2008, 22:26
Three reasons why it died:

1) Games could easily be ripped and burned due to a lack of copy protection.
2) Didn't have DVD playback (I know, right?).
3) PS2, amirite?

SegaShinja
15-03-2009, 10:13
Dead? Not for me. I have one sitting next to the Saturn and another on top of the dying PS2(dying in that it's freezing and you have to pull the door out when you push eject otherwise it'll just suck back in) and another chilling in its box. 60 DC games and growing, and it remains my most played console.

MrEthernex
04-05-2009, 02:53
For those who said that it's not dead (there's quite a few), you're not alone. Yahoo just had an article (more like a video) on the Dreamcast. This one online retailer, ThinkGeek (http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/home-entertainment/ba52/), is actually selling brand new DC's for only about $100 USD, which is the same price for a PS2. The only down side is that it doesn't include a VMU or games and an extra controller is another $15 USD.

Video Article:
http://tinyurl.com/carn2d

sonicfanRICH
04-05-2009, 04:45
I'm not sure if many people would be willing to buy a dreamcast for $100 when they can just get a ps2 instead with games still being sold. I'd say $50 would be a better price to sell the dreamcast.

MrEthernex
04-05-2009, 05:57
I'd say $50 would be a better price to sell the dreamcast.I agree, but only for the brand new systems. Used, I would say $20 USD. That's what I payed for mine.

sonicfanRICH
04-05-2009, 06:34
^ Exactly, and it should be bundled with one of the top games.

Killer French Bread
04-05-2009, 11:20
Well apparently they sold out fairly quickly, which would vindicate them from any argument they priced it too high, and I doubt it was your average mug punters off the streets buying them anyway; what's a 'top game' to someone who buys 10 year old consoles? A token copy of Sonic would be no good to someone like me.

sonicfanRICH
04-05-2009, 11:27
Someone's buying 'em all? The hell....did they just realize the Dreamcast's greatness?

Killer French Bread
04-05-2009, 11:32
Ehmm, no. I think it's more likely to be people who already have a Dreamcast but want a new one that's buying them. I'd be tempted if they found a batch over here in the UK as my consoles a bit of an unsavoury yellow colour now!

sonicfanRICH
04-05-2009, 11:47
Mine's fine and I only need one, so they can go ahead and buy all the new dreamcasts they want. I'll wait 'till they decide to release the Dreamcast 2.

Killer French Bread
17-05-2009, 10:50
^ I hope that post is ironic. If not, it's probably the worst explanation for why the Dreamcast died that I've ever read.

Gavvie
17-05-2009, 15:59
I'm sorry, but I have to pick this post apart.

Commercial support,

No. SEGA pumped shitloads of money into promoting the console, bringing public attention to the fact that it was the first ever online console. They signed a sponsorship deal with four football clubs in Europe that saw Dreamcast as the main sponsor on the home shirt, and SEGA on the away shirt.

Sonic was a joke

Are you basing this opinion on the two Sonic Adventure games, the first of which remains the best selling game on the format, or Sonic Shuffle, which was developed purely as a competitor to Mario Party?

Most games was just Saturn ports

Erm, care to name some? The only "port" was Shenmue, and that games development on Saturn was cancelled when the Dreamcast was announced.

Shenmue Two was ported to the X-box

Shenmue 2 was released on Xbox in America as an exclusive game. The game didn't come out on DC in that territory, but came out nearly a year after the European release of the DC version, and over a year from the Japanese release. Also, by the time of Shenmue 2 Xbox's release in America, the Dreamcast was already dead!

All they had for commercial support was a rouge teen Japanese girl running from the police

See my first point. There was a lot more commercial support worldwide than just one Japanese advert.

Another reason was that it supported sports.

Yep, because sports games don't sell well, do they? And SEGAs NBA series wasn't heralded as the best basketball simulations available at the time, was it?

There is a Power Stones cartoon on and no Power Stone release.

The Power Stone anime was developed at the same time as the first game, in the late 1990s. The first Power Stone game was released as a launch title in 1999, and Power Stone 2 came out a year later, so there were some releases. The two games even got ported to PSP a couple of years ago.

Sega has been owned.

Well, this is just a fanboy comment. I can't even begin to try and explain the number of reasons you're wrong here.

I mean nobody knows what is on the Dreamcast also. Everytime I look I find something intresting but back then aLet me ll I had on the brain was Pokemon, Final Fantasy.

I personally think that, by "nobody", you mean yourself. And if not, well this needs explaining as well then, because I think you're talking crap.

Speaking of which the consumers was not so smart. [1] I mean videogames is too much for western auidiences to handle. Look at France [2] and there Anime festivals.

1 - When the Dreamcast came out in America, it sold a lot quicker than SEGA anticipated it would (see the Wii for a more modern example). It outsold every console on the market at the time, and only stopped selling when Sony announced the first details of the PS2 6 months later.

2 - Let me list a few major videogame developers based in the West:


Ubisoft (France)
EA (California, USA)
BioWare (Canada)
Epic Games (North Carolina, USA)
Bungie (Washington, USA)
Rare (UK)
Criterion (UK)
Rockstar (UK)
Valve (USA)

Seriously, I could just keep going on and on. The developers I listed there have created, between them, some of the industry's biggest franchises, and if you're a gamer you should know that. I simply cannot fathom how you've managed to make that last statement in the belief that you're correct.

Feel free to explain some of them in better detail. After all, you are entitled to your opinions, but when they're so blatently wrong, I felt as though I had to come and correct/educate you.

Killer French Bread
17-05-2009, 17:42
Virtua Cop was released on the DC in America. That's about the only port of a Saturn game I can think of.

Gavvie
19-05-2009, 20:54
Hi, I'm back again :D

Yes they poured shitloads of money into that while people gave up on the Saturn and turned the PSX. Saying something that was not true since there was the SEGA netlink on the Saturn. Yes they even decided to turn to sports, that made players want to stop playing videogames. Also there is many shirt give aways for years from many companies.

Shirt giveaways aren't the same as Shirt sponsorships. I was on about this (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BDCqpuwRnf4/Rjif5ip5paI/AAAAAAAABgg/J8DtB1qOPmc/s400/Arsenal.JPG), this (http://www.depor-shirts.com/Capdevila%20dreamcast%20deportivo%20front.JPG), and this (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gJMCSTp8SGs/ST5vswlyXYI/AAAAAAAABvw/8JkkB8G_qbg/s400/stetienne-dreamcast.gif). Also, could you provide your source which states that sports made people want to stop playing videogames, please?


That was uptill people realize there was nothing on the console to play.
I mean Sonic Adventure Two with the the Big Bad Shadow and the rest of the meaningless characters was the sign the Dreamcast was on the road to ruins.

The Saturn on the other hand abandoned Sonic to move into the new era while westerners could only think about Sonic.

Have you ever heard of Sonic Xtreme? It was a Sonic game being developed for the Saturn, and had a rather troubled history. However, even without Sonic Xtreme, there was still THREE Sonic games released for the Saturn, namely Sonic Jam, Sonic R and Sonic 3D Blast (I'll give you the American title, lest you think I don't know what I'm talking about again).


They were not canceled just ported. I am talking about various games on the Saturn ( Elsewhere in the world ) that was given a dreamcast version that was uneeded. Owning a Dreamcast and playing Saturn games hurt SEGA even more. The fact people have gotten usted to the Saturn (at least in Japan ). Today there is probably far more Saturn players then there is Dreamcast players.

OK, care to name some? Killer French Bread named Virtua Cop as being a Saturn game that got ported to the Dreamcast, which is true, however I'm not accepting this point as fact until you can name some games that were ported from the Saturn to the Dreamcast. If you can't, then you're talking out your arse. Again.

That is my point. You can what was the best game on the system in the most biggest consumer market your going to fail.

No, your point was that Shenmue II being ported to the Xbox caused the downfall of the Dreamcast, when the actual truth was that the Dreamcast had already fallen prior to this decision being made. And let's not forget that Microsoft had paid money to acquire the exclusive rights for Shenmue II in the US, so it was never going to come out on the DC over there anyway.

Well in the USA people was always saying. "Man they just left there games out there to die" . It was like a system that nobody even knewed or cared about. The N64 people had pokemon, the PSX people had Rival Schools, the PS2 people had metal gear solid. What did the Dreamcast people have ?

I find it funny that you claim the N64 people had Pokemon, when that was a fad clearly started on the Game Boy first. We'll just neglect to mention Super Mario 64, the greatest 3D platformer that side of Super Mario Galaxy. Or GoldenEye 007, quite possibly the only reason many people actually bought a N64.

Also, Metal Gear Solid started out on PSone, not PS2, and as for PSone having Rival Schools..well Dreamcast had Project Justice: Rival Schools 2. And it was exclusive to that format, didn't have any other release except the arcade board.

What did the Dreamcast have? Jet Set Radio, Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, House of the Dead 2, Metropolis Street Racer, Phantasy Star Online (the first console MMORPG), Shenmue 1 & 2, Skies of Arcadia, Soulcalibur. They were all successful, either critically or commercially, so you cannot say the Dreamcast didn't have anything.

Exactly. The only thing big was the god forsaken Sports titles. People were like..."Oh wow there is no lines" or something like that.

Hmm. You know you're onto a winner when you try and quote what people were "like", and you can't even get it right. Well Done You!

Ohhh realllyy???? Then were was it promote the game that was playing in Stores everywhere???? I guess for some reason they decided not to run it on a broadcast station as with Dragon Balls, and Sailormoon. Also over here
a Dreamcast launch title was not Power Stones. That was a little later.

First of all, I have to laugh at the fact that you reckon a Power Stone anime would be in the same league as Dragon Ball or Sailor Moon. That's hilarious, friend. Fucking class.

Second of all:
Launch of Dreamcast in US - 9th September 1999
Launch of Power Stone in US - 7th September 1999

Also, the Power Stone anime started airing in Japan a couple of months after the game's release over there (April as opposed to February). The delay in a US release would have been subject to a company picking up the rights and then translating it for the American audience, and as such might not have been ready in time for the American release. Regardless, the sheer fact that Power Stone came out before the Dreamcast, and not after as you claim to state, means that you're not exactly using reliable sources.

Sega is no longer it's own company.

Yes they are. They might've merged with Sammy a few years ago to form the company Sega Sammy Holdings, but the two companies do still operate seperately. Very similar to how Square Enix, Taito and Eidos work.

I am talking about the real targeted consumers. Parents who buy Christmas, Birthday, toys, and various gifts for there children. Not people who is ducking out in college, or has a unlimited credit. Real consumers who control if the system matters.

During that time people was still playing the N64 and even PSX while PS2 when the Dreamcast was released. Many people who was SEGA fans never switched back.

I am not talking about people who have been playing games since the Commendore or Mega Drive NES era.

PS2 wasn't out when the Dreamcast was released. Also, have we forgotten that the Dreamcast outsold every other console on the market on its release? It wasn't just people with expendable income who bought it, everybody did. It was the first console of a new generation, with graphics that looked amazing compared to everything else.

Uhm in comparison to what? The N64 that people was allready playing or the PSX that people was still playing?

Everything means everything. During the same period of time, the Dreamcast outsold everything. Just as an added note, in North America the DC sold 1m units quicker than the PSone and Tickle Me Elmo, according to CNET.com (they referenced it, not me).

Hey you just mentioned europe. That does not count. Also Canada while being in North America has differnt rules then the USA.

Typical American thinking. "DUH, EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OUR COUNTRY DOESN'T EXISTLOL!" The West is everything west of Japan, which if you put Japan on the far right of a map (which people usuall do), means that EVERYTHING IS WEST OF JAPAN!

Also Rockstar is based in NYC.

Wrong. Rockstar Games (which is based in New York) is only where the head office is (alongside Take-Two Interactive), but the actual main development studio is called Rockstar North, which was formally known as DMA Design, and they're based in Scotland.

That is thing. Only franchies but not series. You see when people pick up any media they need to be eqaul to a book for say. Most "western" game creators was not creators but designers, developers, editors, and so on. Also how many of them did well when it really mattered during the Super Famicom versus Mega Drive days?

A franchise is a series. I know in American-speak a franchise can also mean a sports team, but in real world language it's used to define something which makes money. If you want non-games releated franchises, see Spider-Man, or Harry Potter, or anything else of that ilk.

Educate? all you did was give me a view on what the English might have though on the Dreamcast. Note that most games never reach your shores without being given the proper hello, Censored without representation.

Actually most games we get aren't censored at all. Can't exactly say the same for the Germans, as they have a stricter ratings board, but we normally get away scot-free with most of it. Besides, I'm not here to force my views on you, and I'm certainly not giving you a biased point of view. I would say that you'd know if I was...but I doubt it.

Gavvie
19-05-2009, 22:38
...Ok, I'm not even going to try and argue any of those points. It'd take me far too long, and I really can't be arsed.

So! Let's all move back onto a civilised conversation regarding this topic, with some well thought out responses, please :)

Mena
19-05-2009, 22:42
Oh, thank God that discussion on who's got the biggest gun has ended.

Killer French Bread
19-05-2009, 22:54
Ah yeah, you are right Mena. No point it contiuing this farce.

The guy is a genuine, honest too goodness 'internet eejit'. Nothing to see here.

Sound Reaper
19-05-2009, 23:16
In case you see a double-post of a moderator here, it's just an illusion. ;)

amcdc79
29-05-2009, 04:19
Great read Gavvie, I actually went through the thread again looking for the original comments from Regalsin but I could not find them. I guess there are all kinds of people on the web, but his kind give most of us a bad taste in our mouth.

I was a huge Nintendo fan who just had to try a Sega console(Dreamcast-my first) and was totally blown away. It also gave me my first taste of the internet, on a 50' tv while sitting on a couch, which I thought was pretty cool.